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Raz Science question: Why no tiny Dinosaurs?

Started by Razgovory, February 23, 2012, 09:49:38 AM

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Razgovory

#15
February 23, 2012, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 23, 2012, 10:24:47 AM
Quote from: Barrister on February 23, 2012, 10:07:03 AM
A few moments of googling show that there are a few dinosaurs more the size of squirrels.

I give you Nemicolopterus.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/02/11/pterodactyl-dinosaur.html

Pterodactyls (which are pterosaurs) are not dinosaurs, so no. But if you are uninformed idiot by choice like Raz this might not matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterosaur

QuotePterosaurs are often referred to in the popular media and by the general public as flying dinosaurs, but this is incorrect. The term "dinosaur" is properly restricted to a certain group of reptiles with a unique upright stance (clade Dinosauria, which includes birds), and therefore excludes the pterosaurs, as well as the various groups of extinct marine reptiles, such as ichthyosaurs, plesiosaurs, and mosasaurs.

Why the fuck are you attacking me?

Here's an example of a small mammal from the period of the Dinosaurs.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6176061.stm  It flies to boot.

Here's a news story on an even smaller one.  http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1998/10/02/tec_240709.shtml  I know that very small animals are difficult to find as fossils, but they do occur.  Dinosaurs had a good run, so you'd expect something to turn up.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#16
February 23, 2012, 11:32:23 AM
Anyway, my uninformed idiot guess is that if Dinosaurs really were warm blooded they have had a lower limit on how small they could be.  A very tiny Dinosaur would have such a great surface area compared to total volume they would rapidly lose heat.  Mammals and birds can overcome this by having a layer of fur or feather to act as insulation, and lizards, snakes and amphibians are cold blooded so they don't have to worry about this as much.  Dinosaurs may not have had a layer of insulation, and so couldn't get very small.  Just my unscientific guess.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Viking

#17
February 23, 2012, 11:33:20 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2012, 11:17:55 AM
Why the fuck are you attacking me?

Because you so richly deserve it.
Quote from: Razgovory on February 23, 2012, 11:17:55 AM

Here's an example of a small mammal from the period of the Dinosaurs.  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6176061.stm  It flies to boot.

Here's a news story on an even smaller one.  http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1998/10/02/tec_240709.shtml  I know that very small animals are difficult to find as fossils, but they do occur.  Dinosaurs had a good run, so you'd expect something to turn up.

Good thing I referred you to a 100g dinosaur from the same period as your 70g gliding mammal.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Razgovory

#18
February 23, 2012, 05:02:19 PM Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 05:03:53 PM by Razgovory
110 g dinosaur actually.  Just out of curiosity, why did you call me "uninformed idiot by choice"?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ideologue

#19
February 23, 2012, 05:12:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on February 23, 2012, 10:29:28 AM
Quote from: Viking on February 23, 2012, 10:27:47 AM
Quote from: Brazen on February 23, 2012, 10:22:12 AM
There's a tiny pterosaur (probably called Tony)  in this list that weighed just a few ounces.

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/typesofdinosaurs/tp/Five-Smallest-Dinosaurs.htm

Strange that a page named the 5 smallest dinosaurs has a list of 10 animals of which only 1,2,3,5 and 7 are actually dinosaurs. Nrs 8 and 9 are actually mammals and in no colloquial sense dinosaurs.
"Here's a list of the 10 smallest prehistoric animals"

I can think of plenty smaller.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

garbon

#20
February 23, 2012, 05:12:31 PM
Yeah didn't Raz just ask a question with this thread? :huh:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

#21
February 23, 2012, 05:14:10 PM
Quote from: Viking on February 23, 2012, 10:27:47 AM
Quote from: Brazen on February 23, 2012, 10:22:12 AM
There's a tiny pterosaur (probably called Tony)  in this list that weighed just a few ounces.

http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/typesofdinosaurs/tp/Five-Smallest-Dinosaurs.htm

Strange that a page named the 5 smallest dinosaurs has a list of 10 animals of which only 1,2,3,5 and 7 are actually dinosaurs. Nrs 8 and 9 are actually mammals and in no colloquial sense dinosaurs.

Umm, the subheading and intro paragraph actually state differently so it is probably just a case of a poorly chosen title on about.com. Oh noes!!!
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Ideologue

#22
February 23, 2012, 05:15:31 PM
"Was Cleopatra a dinosaur?"
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

alfred russel

#24
February 24, 2012, 05:21:55 AM
One theory for why dinosaurs tended to be excluded from small sizes is that they had avian-style respiratory systems. These are more efficient than those of mammals, but they also take up more space (with air sacs). Space is at a premium at smaller sizes, so this could have been a disadvantage for them. But there isn't evidence that all dinosaurs had that style of respiratory system.

It does seem that land mammals are excluded from the general design of some of the largest dinosaurs, because of limitations of the respiratory systems.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Josquius

#25
February 24, 2012, 06:08:35 AM
Didn't mammals already have the mouse niche covered even back then?
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Darth Wagtaros

#26
February 24, 2012, 07:04:00 AM
Were the Incan torpedo boats pulled by pleisosaurs?
PDH!

MadBurgerMaker

#27
February 24, 2012, 08:18:51 AM Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 08:29:19 AM by MadBurgerMaker
Did anyone mention Mediterranean house geckos yet? 

Dinosaurs.  Right there on the side of my house.  IDGAF about what anyone says about birds or whatever. 




Those things are pretty cool in the summer when all the bugs are flying around the back porch light.  They just hang out picking off bugs right near the light for maximum entertainment value.


IT'S A MONSTd'awwwww

Neil

#28
February 24, 2012, 08:29:14 AM
That's not a dinosaur.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

MadBurgerMaker

#29
February 24, 2012, 08:34:40 AM Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 10:04:08 AM by MadBurgerMaker
Quote from: Neil on February 24, 2012, 08:29:14 AM
That's not a dinosaur.



I disagree.
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