George Lucas to give up film-making because of Star Wars critics

[Valmy]

I'm thinking mainly of the KOTOR-type stuff.

If only there had been a KOTOR III.  Or heck if only Obsidian had been able to finish KOTOR II.

[Valmy]

I find it unlikely that it wasn't a cliche story in the early 70s, but it's possible.

Actually, there were sociological papers looking at how Lucas used and combined classic elements in a new way...

Yeah I was about to say alot of ink has been spilled over all the classic images and archtypes and so forth in academia over the first couple Star Wars movies.

[PDH]

Yeah I was about to say alot of ink has been spilled over all the classic images and archtypes and so forth in academia over the first couple Star Wars movies.

Which underlines their impact - the new has become the cliche.

[The Brain]

Yeah I was about to say alot of ink has been spilled over all the classic images and archtypes and so forth in academia over the first couple Star Wars movies.

Which underlines their impact - the new has become the cliche.

Elaborate.

[crazy canuck]

I find it unlikely that it wasn't a cliche story in the early 70s, but it's possible.

Actually, there were sociological papers looking at how Lucas used and combined classic elements in a new way...

Yeah I was about to say alot of ink has been spilled over all the classic images and archtypes and so forth in academia over the first couple Star Wars movies.

Yep,

Joseph Campbell was interviewed by PBS shortly before his death.  During those interviews  Campbell had a wide ranging discussion regarding the power of myth in which he frequently made references to the use of mythological archetypes in the original Star Wars trilogy.

I know its a classic appeal to authority.  But if it was good enough for Campbell...

[Valmy]

Elaborate.

I think Casablanca has the worst writing ever, every line is some cliche.

[PDH]

Elaborate.

No, I obfuscate too much.

[The Brain]

Elaborate.

I think Casablanca has the worst writing ever, every line is some cliche.

The archetypes that were used in Star Wars became new somehow?

[Maximus]

Actually, there were sociological papers looking at how Lucas used and combined classic elements in a new way...

One of the greatest irritations of the Star Wars setting to me is that is is this sort of frankensteinic mishmash of fantasy and science fiction. (Incidentally I have the same problem with Dune).

I can see how that would be interesting to those who study storytelling.

[PDH]

Time to obfuscate.

There are mythic archetypes that run throughout Indo-European narratives.  They have impact because they are fundamentally/essentially true stories that culturally stay relevant.  These basic elements can be recombined in new ways, and when they are they often become catalysts to new thoughts, expressions, ways of explaining the world, etc.

Star Wars took basic myth elements and recombined them in such a way at to appeal.  While I am not equating them to fundamentally important myths, they were impactful enough that the method became common.

[Kleves]

I had a problem with an all powerful Jedi Knight allowing a young boy to risk his life in a crazy race so the Knight could acquire a spare part for his broken down spaceship and then when it is time to leave tells the boy - I am not here to save your mother.  And then the learned council turns the training of this boy, who normally would not be admitted due to his age and who is very powerful in the force, over to one of their most inexperienced members.

Plus, you know, midichlorians. 

[The Brain]

Time to obfuscate.

There are mythic archetypes that run throughout Indo-European narratives.  They have impact because they are fundamentally/essentially true stories that culturally stay relevant.  These basic elements can be recombined in new ways, and when they are they often become catalysts to new thoughts, expressions, ways of explaining the world, etc.

Star Wars took basic myth elements and recombined them in such a way at to appeal.  While I am not equating them to fundamentally important myths, they were impactful enough that the method became common.

The only thing new was putting them in space. Which is not nothing, but not a lot either. Lightsabers and starships had a wee bit more to do with the appeal than any archetype combinations.

[PDH]

I am not saying the effects were not what drew me in as a 10 year old in the mid 1970s, however some of the appeal (and the fanboi reaction to changes of the cannon) strike me as much more about the mythic element and the appeal of the combinations Lucas used.

[crazy canuck]

I am not saying the effects were not what drew me in as a 10 year old in the mid 1970s, however some of the appeal (and the fanboi reaction to changes of the cannon) strike me as much more about the mythic element and the appeal of the combinations Lucas used.

Yep, and you forgot to obfuscate that time.

[The Brain]

I am not saying the effects were not what drew me in as a 10 year old in the mid 1970s, however some of the appeal (and the fanboi reaction to changes of the cannon) strike me as much more about the mythic element and the appeal of the combinations Lucas used.

The archetypes are powerful story parts, that's why they've been around so long. I just don't see Star Wars doing anything new with them (except the "hey what if... we put Mentor in space? With a lightsaber? Cool!").