What is the West? Is Greece part of the West?

[crazy canuck]

I reckon so.  My argument that something can't be two things at once falls on deaf ears.

All kinds of things can be two things at once 

Can a place be both Eastern and Western at once?

Can't a culture espouse some Eastern ideals and some Western ideals as the same time?

If he says no, he has to get his butt over to Vancouver to see it live and in person.

[mongers]

I reckon so.  My argument that something can't be two things at once falls on deaf ears.

Of course something can be 2 (or more) things at once.  A red chair is both a chair, and a red object.  If it happens to be made of wood, it's also a wooden object.

Perhaps I should have phrased it differently.  To mutually exclusive things can't be the same at once.  Something can't be East and West at the same time.

So if I go to Greenwich this Sunday and take a picture of me standing on the Meridian for you, will I be in the Eastern or the Western hemispheres at that moment or perhaps both ? 

[Viking]

I reckon so.  My argument that something can't be two things at once falls on deaf ears.

All kinds of things can be two things at once 

Can a place be both Eastern and Western at once?

Can't a culture espouse some Eastern ideals and some Western ideals as the same time?

No. It's not a juxtaposition of west versus east. Your use of the word "East" here is about as bizzarre as having not-islam or not-hindu or not-confucian as culture or identifying an idea as non-something. "The West" here is not referring to a compass position, it is equivalent to the use of "Islamic", "Indian/Hindu", "Chinese/Confusian/Dao" etc. We are stuck with the phrase "The West" because we lost the use of "Christendom" and "Europe" in the Enlightenment and Age of Exploration as well as getting lumbered with "The West" during the Cold War.

There is naturally a cross pollination of ideas; especially during the axial age and today. Christianity and Christianity's unique idea of Individual worth is an eastern idea (in Roman terms) imported into what was the still not yet west "west". A Culture has it's own values and ideas; most of which are ultimately imported. The point is that there is no WEST or EAST which generates these ideas externally which then any self defined culture can then pick and mix. If you adopt an idea it becomes your idea. If you adopt western ideas then you become part of the west. If you have Democracy, Law, Science and Human Rights as The West understands those ideas then you are part of the west. If you pick and mix then you are NOT part of the west.   

[garbon]

It isn't bizarre as that's been the tenor of the discussion. Should I be petulant and refuse to use the terms that were posed in the question?

As to the rest of your post, haven't several members of the West been spanked recently for picking and choosing from those ideas, as you say?

[Lettow77]

 What is the west? Glad I could be of help.



COLOUR KEY-
Dark blue: the upright West, right and proper, as most understand it. See also: "True west", "west west"
lighter blue: The Southern Europeans. authentically western, but allergic to the protestant work ethic. See also: "Neutral West"
ice-esque blue: A contracting realm. Embraces many ideas not necessarily endorsed by TRUE WEST. See also: "Evil West"
MORE DIFFERENT NEVER FORGET BLUE: EUGENE TERRE'BLANCHE RIP GOODNIGHT SWEET PRINCE

Red: Zipang, the land of promise
Pink: Not exactly the west, but doing its best. Deserves an A for effort. See also: "Chaotic West"
Brown: A west befouled by various unfortunate strains of the western tradition. See also: "Chaotic Evil West"
Green: A west that may yet be redeemed into the contemporary strain; it is unclear if they will rejoin the mainstream west or the Southern Europeans. See also: "Lawful West."
Orange: areas to be peacebly re-integrated into Zipang on an equal basis
Black: the impudent slave race, to be suppressed by Omawari-san
Yellow: An alternate civilization theory to the West.

[Viking]

It isn't bizarre as that's been the tenor of the discussion. Should I be petulant and refuse to use the terms that were posed in the question?

As to the rest of your post, haven't several members of the West been spanked recently for picking and choosing from those ideas, as you say?

Since the question that was posed is "What is the West? Is Greece part of the West?" I think it is bizzarre since I consider "The West" to be a cultural and philosophical whole. This is in part since "The West" has been used to describe everything from places west of Achaemenid Persia, Parthia, Illyria, Greece, Orthodoxy and The Iron Curtain. This is a continuum that starts with Ancient Greece, Classical Rome, Medeival Catholicism etc. (terms after this point get complicated and overly verbose).

That all being said what makes "The West" a cultural and philosophical group today are a set of core values. Any society which adhers to all these values is automatically accepted (Korea and Japan) and any state which deviates from these values will be rejected even if they seek to join (Turkey and Russia). I'm not quite sure what you mean by Eastern Values, but I have been working with the assumption that what you are talking about is not Hummous, Saris or Noh Theater but rather views by non western societies on law, democracy, science and human rights.

Please don't get the impression that with "The West" I am in any way talking about western genetics, food, music, clothing or theater; all those things are mere window dressing and details. Which is why Japan and Korea are western despite being farther east than any non-western society (pacific islanders excepted). Being white doesn't make you western.

But, do say, which members of the west did get spanked for deviating from my 4 principles; and, does it fit my thesis here that when they deviate they get spanked?

[Ideologue]

What is the west? Glad I could be of help.



COLOUR KEY-
Dark blue: the upright West, right and proper, as most understand it. See also: "True west", "west west"
lighter blue: The Southern Europeans. authentically western, but allergic to the protestant work ethic. See also: "Neutral West"
ice-esque blue: A contracting realm. Embraces many ideas not necessarily endorsed by TRUE WEST. See also: "Evil West"
MORE DIFFERENT NEVER FORGET BLUE: EUGENE TERRE'BLANCHE RIP GOODNIGHT SWEET PRINCE

Red: Zipang, the land of promise
Pink: Not exactly the west, but doing its best. Deserves an A for effort. See also: "Chaotic West"
Brown: A west befouled by various unfortunate strains of the western tradition. See also: "Chaotic Evil West"
Green: A west that may yet be redeemed into the contemporary strain; it is unclear if they will rejoin the mainstream west or the Southern Europeans. See also: "Lawful West."
Orange: areas to be peacebly re-integrated into Zipang on an equal basis
Black: the impudent slave race, to be suppressed by Omawari-san
Yellow: An alternate civilization theory to the West.

Except I don't know what Slovakia did to you, and THE ROC WILL NEVER DIE, basically correct.

Especially the bolded part.

[Razgovory]

I find myself with strange allies here...

[Sahib]

Lettow, it might surprise you but Slovakia is basically identical to Czech Republic and Poland.

[Sheilbh]

I feel most sorry for poor Croatia

[Viking]

Lettow, it might surprise you but Slovakia is basically identical to Czech Republic and Poland.

eh.. the rule of Vladimir Meciar means that Slovakia is a few years behind the Czechs and Poles.

[fhdz]

I find myself with strange allies here...

[Tonitrus]

Why would Japan want an island full of Russians?

[Ideologue]

Why would Japan want an island full of Russians?

Most are content with sex slaves that look just like Japanese women, but some desire more exotic fare.

[dps]

I feel most sorry for poor Croatia

I find myself wondering about the status of Baja, and Vancouver.