So what's the big fucking deal about Marines pissing on dead Taliban?

[Gups]

Why not?

They are heroes who put their life on the line for our country.  They deserve our respect and admiration.  But as part of training them to be soldiers they may not be the kind of person you'd want your daughter going out with.

I have the same mixed feelings about hockey players.

A soldier isn't a hero per se (although he may do heroic things). He's not joining up from a feeling of sacrifice but because he wants to (like killing people, thinks it'll make a man of him, can't think of anything esle to do, interested in technical training, etc). They deserve your respect and admiration when they do something that deserves your respect and admiration. Joining up isn't one of them

[Barrister]

Why not?

They are heroes who put their life on the line for our country.  They deserve our respect and admiration.  But as part of training them to be soldiers they may not be the kind of person you'd want your daughter going out with.

I have the same mixed feelings about hockey players.

A soldier isn't a hero per se (although he may do heroic things). He's not joining up from a feeling of sacrifice but because he wants to (like killing people, thinks it'll make a man of him, can't think of anything esle to do, interested in technical training, etc). They deserve your respect and admiration when they do something that deserves your respect and admiration. Joining up isn't one of them

Disagree.  By the mere act of enlisting you are putting your life at risk, because you're accepting the risk you might be deployed to a war zone.  The fact you may wind up being deployed to Wainright, Alberta for the duration of your enlistment doesn't cheapen that risk.  And so they can be called heroes as far as I'm concerned.

[Admiral Yi]

Agree with Gups about heroes.

Disagree with Gups about motives for signing up.

Agree with Beeb about respect for people who are risking their lives in your service.

[Valmy]

A soldier isn't a hero per se (although he may do heroic things). He's not joining up from a feeling of sacrifice but because he wants to (like killing people, thinks it'll make a man of him, can't think of anything esle to do, interested in technical training, etc). They deserve your respect and admiration when they do something that deserves your respect and admiration. Joining up isn't one of them

I guess I mostly just give them my gratitude.  So long as we have recruitment I will never have to undergo the ordeal of military service.  My father's generation was not so lucky.

[Zanza]

Well when you are brutalized you do fucked up things.  Many did less fucked up things, and many did much more fucked up stuff.

Being brutalized is no excuse, military is all about discipline. This case seems to be undignified conduct and should be treated as such.

[Razgovory]

Agree with Gups about heroes.

Disagree with Gups about motives for signing up.

Agree with Beeb about respect for people who are risking their lives in your service.

What was your motive for signing up?

[Valmy]

Being brutalized is no excuse, military is all about discipline. This case seems to be undignified conduct and should be treated as such.

I am sure it will not be considered such at their court-martial

I am just saying I can certainly see how this sort of thing happens.  I have heard all sorts of things our soldiers did during WWII that ranged from atrocities to the undignified.  Of course back then it was not recorded and put on the internet so it was really rare anybody actually got called to account for them.

[Admiral Yi]

What was your motive for signing up?

I don't get it Raz.

[Razgovory]

What was your motive for signing up?

I don't get it Raz.

You disagreed with Gups possible motives for signing up.  I wondered what yours was.  Mine was "to be useful".  They didn't want me around when they found out I was crazy.

[Admiral Yi]

You disagreed with Gups possible motives for signing up.  I wondered what yours was.  Mine was "to be useful".  They didn't want me around when they found out I was crazy.

Gups didn't sign up either Raz.

[crazy canuck]

This case is a good reason for having military tribunals.  I have never lived under the stress these men have.  They are best judged by people that can understand the context in which these acts occurred and the rules and regulations the military has for governing their conduct.

[Zanza]

This case is a good reason for having military tribunals.  I have never lived under the stress these men have.  They are best judged by people that can understand the context in which these acts occurred and the rules and regulations the military has for governing their conduct.

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

[crazy canuck]

This case is a good reason for having military tribunals.  I have never lived under the stress these men have.  They are best judged by people that can understand the context in which these acts occurred and the rules and regulations the military has for governing their conduct.

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

I wouldnt want to waste the money required to have expert witnesses explain to a civilian judiciary what it is like to be a soldier.

[dps]

This case is a good reason for having military tribunals.  I have never lived under the stress these men have.  They are best judged by people that can understand the context in which these acts occurred and the rules and regulations the military has for governing their conduct.

You seem to be implying that the marines involved are better off being tried by a court martial than in a civilian criminal court.  Well, you might be right if we're talking about an Afghan civilian court, but I suspect that a court martial can hand down a far harsher penalty than a civilian criminal court could in the US.  In a civilian court, all they could be charged with AFAIK in most jurisdictions would be desecrating a corpse, which would probably just draw a relatively small fine (though I'm not sure about that).  I'm sure that a court martial could level some far more serious charges.

[Zanza]

This case is a good reason for having military tribunals.  I have never lived under the stress these men have.  They are best judged by people that can understand the context in which these acts occurred and the rules and regulations the military has for governing their conduct.

To counter the state within the state effect, I prefer having the military being subject to the normal civilian judiciary. It's part of the oversight of civil society over the military.

I wouldnt want to waste the money required to have expert witnesses explain to a civilian judiciary what it is like to be a soldier.

That would be a price I am willing to pay.