Baseball 2012

[derspiess]

The Cardinals, not the Mets, are, in a sense, the closest thing the National League has to the Yankees.

Not that I personally buy into the Yankee hate, but I understand why it exists.

The Yankees dominate, the Cardinals are first among equals. And of course the city of St. Louis doesn't put on the airs New York does.

Well the St. Louis air has the stale beer smell of the Bronx, but is missing the full cocktail of smog and fresh urine, so I guess that's right.

I kinda miss the stale beer + faint cigarette smoke smell of Riverfront Stadium

[derspiess]

Today's the anniversary of the most egregious crime in post-war baseball:  on this day in 1957, the Dodgers left Brooklyn.

And let us celebrate by hoping they don't make the playoffs again this year.

Sounds good to me.

[Valmy]

Today's the anniversary of the most egregious crime in post-war baseball:  on this day in 1957, the Dodgers left Brooklyn.

After looking over the evidence I think the main culprit is the City of New York.  They never did give a crap about Brooklyn.

O'Malley wanted to build the new Stadium in Brooklyn, entirely with private money no less, and NYC blocked him at every turn.  They just ran the Giants and Dodgers out of town so far as I can see.

[Eddie Teach]

If Brooklyn wanted its own sports teams, they shouldn't have let NYC annex them in the first place.

[CountDeMoney]

Today's the anniversary of the most egregious crime in post-war baseball:  on this day in 1957, the Dodgers left Brooklyn.

After looking over the evidence I think the main culprit is the City of New York.  They never did give a crap about Brooklyn.

O'Malley wanted to build the new Stadium in Brooklyn, entirely with private money no less, and NYC blocked him at every turn.  They just ran the Giants and Dodgers out of town so far as I can see.

That would be correct.

[Barrister]

If Brooklyn wanted its own sports teams, they shouldn't have let NYC annex them in the first place.

But Brooklyn now has its own sports team.

[Eddie Teach]

But Brooklyn now has its own sports team.

No, it has a stadium for a New York team.

[Barrister]

But Brooklyn now has its own sports team.

No, it has a stadium for a New York team.

???

[Eddie Teach]

NM, thought you were talking about the Mets, who are apparently based in Queens.

[Valmy]

The Yankees just keep winning.  That extra inning miracle against the A's was especially infuriating.  Man come on fall apart Bombers what is this shit?

[The Minsky Moment]

Andy Pettite has pitched 11 scoreless innings since returning from injury.  He is also averaging over 8Ks per 9IP; not bad for a 40 year old.

[dps]

Today's the anniversary of the most egregious crime in post-war baseball:  on this day in 1957, the Dodgers left Brooklyn.

After looking over the evidence I think the main culprit is the City of New York.  They never did give a crap about Brooklyn.

O'Malley wanted to build the new Stadium in Brooklyn, entirely with private money no less, and NYC blocked him at every turn.  They just ran the Giants and Dodgers out of town so far as I can see.

I've read that O'Malley cried when he found out the details of the agreement the city had with the Mets over Shea Stadium when that venue's construction was approved.  The Mets got more that he had ever asked for and he told associates that if he had gotten anything approaching that deal he would have never even considered moving the team.

[Valmy]

I've read that O'Malley cried when he found out the details of the agreement the city had with the Mets over Shea Stadium when that venue's construction was approved.  The Mets got more that he had ever asked for and he told associates that if he had gotten anything approaching that deal he would have never even considered moving the team.

I know it was really horriblely done by the City.  They could have kept both the Giants (well the Giants would have had to be moved out of Manhattan) and Dodgers for far less than they gave up to get the Mets.  Both clubs were in an impossible position and had no choice but to go. 

[The Minsky Moment]

I've read that O'Malley cried when he found out the details of the agreement the city had with the Mets over Shea Stadium when that venue's construction was approved.  The Mets got more that he had ever asked for and he told associates that if he had gotten anything approaching that deal he would have never even considered moving the team.

That's nonsense, as is much of the pro-O'Malley spin in this thread.

O'Malley wanted build a stadium at Flatbush and Atlantic, i.e. basically where the new arena was just built for the Nets.  But that would have required the City to condemn private land Kelo-style and incur massive expenses to relocate rail facilitites at the location: even Robert Moses wasn't prepared to do that just so that the Dodgers could build a new baseball park.   O'Malley did raise the idea of a Flushing Meadow site with Moses, and Moses, with his characteristic energy, came up with a construction plan including the possibility of a domed stadium.  But by that time, O'Malley was far along with his LA negotiations, and pulled out of the Queens project with the lame excuse that the Dodgers were too associated with Brooklyn to move to Queens.

For some reason, revisionist history has come to dominate, perhaps because O'Malley's friends and allies have been happy to tell his side of the story over the years, and perhaps also because the name Robert Moses has (justifiably but for other reasons) become synonymous for high-handedness and disastrous social engineering through city planning, making him the perfect foil to take on the villain's role.  The reality was that O'Malley was a sharp businessman who became the first to play the now familiar game of playing hardball with city officials by playing one city off against another.  He used the Queens alternative to get sweetheart terms from LA, simple as that. 

[dps]

I've read that O'Malley cried when he found out the details of the agreement the city had with the Mets over Shea Stadium when that venue's construction was approved.  The Mets got more that he had ever asked for and he told associates that if he had gotten anything approaching that deal he would have never even considered moving the team.

That's nonsense, as is much of the pro-O'Malley spin in this thread.

O'Malley wanted build a stadium at Flatbush and Atlantic, i.e. basically where the new arena was just built for the Nets.  But that would have required the City to condemn private land Kelo-style and incur massive expenses to relocate rail facilitites at the location: even Robert Moses wasn't prepared to do that just so that the Dodgers could build a new baseball park.   O'Malley did raise the idea of a Flushing Meadow site with Moses, and Moses, with his characteristic energy, came up with a construction plan including the possibility of a domed stadium.  But by that time, O'Malley was far along with his LA negotiations, and pulled out of the Queens project with the lame excuse that the Dodgers were too associated with Brooklyn to move to Queens.

For some reason, revisionist history has come to dominate, perhaps because O'Malley's friends and allies have been happy to tell his side of the story over the years, and perhaps also because the name Robert Moses has (justifiably but for other reasons) become synonymous for high-handedness and disastrous social engineering through city planning, making him the perfect foil to take on the villain's role.  The reality was that O'Malley was a sharp businessman who became the first to play the now familiar game of playing hardball with city officials by playing one city off against another.  He used the Queens alternative to get sweetheart terms from LA, simple as that. 

Don't know;  I wasn't there.  I've read things spun both ways.  To be honest, I don't really care, because I don't have a dog in this fight.  I do know that he got a very nice deal from LA.