GOP Primary Megathread!

[Martinus]

To an European, the term "ethnicity" has a very strong genetic component to it. It is not just about culture or religion, but also about your parents, grandparents etc. being "genetically" of a given nation (understood as a subset of a "race"). Nazi Germany was a classic example of a state which built national identity around the ethnic concepts - you could not be a German no matter how well assimilated you were if you were e.g. a Jew. That is why, as Sheilbh says, in modern world this approach is becoming more and more meaningless, still there are still some nations that build their identity on blood at least to a degree.

Edit: Having read garçon's link I guess we are once again arguing over cultural/linguistic differences in understanding certain terms. If you understand "ethnicity" as a "culture" then yes, France is an ethnic state. Stupid Americans never understand the same terms the same way we do. 

[garbon]

Hasn't France often had to-dos about it's soccer team being too African?

[Martinus]

Hasn't France often had to-dos about it's soccer team being too African?

If soccer was a valid representation of national issues in Europe, we would be having something like the forty sixth world war by now.

[garbon]

Hasn't France often had to-dos about it's soccer team being too African?

If soccer was a valid representation of national issues in Europe, we would be having something like the forty sixth world war by now.

Erm, wasn't it elected politicians who raised the fuss? Not that "fringe" politicians should be used to judge a nation in its entirety. Really just wanted to point out that there is some feeling of ethnic basis out there - rightly or wrongly.

[Martinus]

Hasn't France often had to-dos about it's soccer team being too African?

If soccer was a valid representation of national issues in Europe, we would be having something like the forty sixth world war by now.

Erm, wasn't it elected politicians who raised the fuss? Not that "fringe" politicians should be used to judge a nation in its entirety. Really just wanted to point out that there is some feeling of ethnic basis out there - rightly or wrongly.

I may be wrong but I think the issue there was about awarding "fast track" citizenship to recently transferred soccer players just so they can play in national representation (and had no real or symbolic connection to France, and would leave it as soon as their contract ended) not about them being of an African origin.

[garbon]

Hasn't France often had to-dos about it's soccer team being too African?

If soccer was a valid representation of national issues in Europe, we would be having something like the forty sixth world war by now.

Erm, wasn't it elected politicians who raised the fuss? Not that "fringe" politicians should be used to judge a nation in its entirety. Really just wanted to point out that there is some feeling of ethnic basis out there - rightly or wrongly.

I may be wrong but I think the issue there was about awarding "fast track" citizenship to recently transferred soccer players just so they can play in national representation (and had no real or symbolic connection to France, and would leave it as soon as their contract ended) not about them being of an African origin.

Again I don't pay much attention but I think that's oversimplifying the issue. The summary I could find on wikipedia suggests otherwise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_football_team#Representing_multi-ethnic_France

[Sheilbh]

Erm, wasn't it elected politicians who raised the fuss? Not that "fringe" politicians should be used to judge a nation in its entirety. Really just wanted to point out that there is some feeling of ethnic basis out there - rightly or wrongly.

If you look at your link then you'll see it was something the French Football Federation and Laurent Blanc did.  It caused a huge controversy, they've since backed down, were widely condemned by elected politicians and I think for a while it wasn't clear whether Blanc would keep his job.

The 1998 World Cup winning team (and national heroes) were ethnically and racially mixed.  I don't think there was any controversy.

[garbon]

I was looking at the Le Pen bit.

[Sheilbh]

I was looking at the Le Pen bit.

Oh okay.  That makes much more sense

[Ideologue]

I was looking at the Le Pen

Oh, shock.

[Martinus]

I was looking at the Le Pen bit.

Le Pen is a right wing racist.

[Razgovory]

Gee Wiz, how did we get talking about a right wing racist in a Ron Paul thread.

[Duque de Bragança]

Hasn't France often had to-dos about it's soccer team being too African?

If soccer was a valid representation of national issues in Europe, we would be having something like the forty sixth world war by now.

Erm, wasn't it elected politicians who raised the fuss? Not that "fringe" politicians should be used to judge a nation in its entirety. Really just wanted to point out that there is some feeling of ethnic basis out there - rightly or wrongly.

I may be wrong but I think the issue there was about awarding "fast track" citizenship to recently transferred soccer players just so they can play in national representation (and had no real or symbolic connection to France, and would leave it as soon as their contract ended) not about them being of an African origin.

A bit more complex than that, they would be trained in France and then play for their parent's country team i.e the French football federation, youth clubs do the nurturing and other countries pick up the rewards.

Sheilbh

1998 is so far away now The "friendly" between France Algeria with the Marseillaise booed and "Vive Ben Laden" put an end to the "France black, blanc, beur" propaganda/dream.
For Finkielkraut, it was black, black, black anyways.

[Razgovory]

To an European, the term "ethnicity" has a very strong genetic component to it. It is not just about culture or religion, but also about your parents, grandparents etc. being "genetically" of a given nation (understood as a subset of a "race"). Nazi Germany was a classic example of a state which built national identity around the ethnic concepts - you could not be a German no matter how well assimilated you were if you were e.g. a Jew. That is why, as Sheilbh says, in modern world this approach is becoming more and more meaningless, still there are still some nations that build their identity on blood at least to a degree.

Edit: Having read garçon's link I guess we are once again arguing over cultural/linguistic differences in understanding certain terms. If you understand "ethnicity" as a "culture" then yes, France is an ethnic state. Stupid Americans never understand the same terms the same way we do. 

Fuck, no wonder you people couldn't figure out what to do with Milosevic.

[garbon]

I was looking at the Le Pen bit.

Le Pen is a right wing racist.

Did you not see my fringe mention?