GOP Primary Megathread!

[mongers]

At this point wouldn't it be helpful to have some 'French' people giving their opinions about what is 'french' ? 

At the moment I think peoples opinions of what is 'French' are being substantially influenced by how much they like French culture or their own view of France.

[mongers]

All sorts Welsh, Breton, Cornish, WASP, Kurds, Turks (as ethnicity not nationality), Berbers, Finns (again as opposed to nationality which may be different and surely includes the Sami).

What makes these ethnic groups and others such as English and German not?

I don't know and even if that's the case or not.

I think a key problem is invariable ethnicity is talked about in relation to another ethnicity or culture, so a discussion about Welshness will so often end up bringing in the English in one guise or another, be it history, language or house prices.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Zoupa can chime in.

[Sheilbh]

What makes these ethnic groups and others such as English and German not?

They're about ethnic origin - with attached language (or not) and cultural traditions (or not).  The English and the Germans aren't.

Looking up Garbo's Wiki-link, there's this which seems to explain a lot: 'The term 'ethnic' popularly connotes '[race]' in Britain, only less precisely, and with a lighter value load. In North America, by contrast, '[race]' most commonly means color, and 'ethnics' are the descendents of relatively recent immigrants from non-English-speaking countries. '[Ethnic]' is not a noun in Britain. In effect there are no 'ethnics'; there are only 'ethnic relations'.[18]'

Of the definitions on that page a probably agree with this one most "...a highly biologically self-perpetuating group sharing an interest in a homeland connected with a specific geographical area, a common language and traditions, including food preferences, and a common religious faith".

[Admiral Yi]

They're about ethnic origin - with attached language (or not) and cultural traditions (or not).  The English and the Germans aren't.

Looking up Garbo's Wiki-link, there's this which seems to explain a lot: 'The term 'ethnic' popularly connotes '[race]' in Britain, only less precisely, and with a lighter value load. In North America, by contrast, '[race]' most commonly means color, and 'ethnics' are the descendents of relatively recent immigrants from non-English-speaking countries. '[Ethnic]' is not a noun in Britain. In effect there are no 'ethnics'; there are only 'ethnic relations'.[18]'

Of the definitions on that page a probably agree with this one most "...a highly biologically self-perpetuating group sharing an interest in a homeland connected with a specific geographical area, a common language and traditions, including food preferences, and a common religious faith".

Most of this makes sense.  But I still don't get why you think the Welsh are an ethnic group but the English are not.  Biologically self perpetuating, check.  Sharing an interest in a specfici geographical area, check.  A common language and traditions, including food, check.  Common religious faith, sort of.

[garbon]

Zoupa can chime in.

He started the whole bit that it wasn't ethnic. I'm not sure to what extent it makes sense to ask a member of a group as ethnic based States are viewed negatively and few would happily accept such a label. Might like asking someone from the Balkans to sort things out.

[Sheilbh]

Most of this makes sense.  But I still don't get why you think the Welsh are an ethnic group but the English are not.  Biologically self perpetuating, check.  Sharing an interest in a specfici geographical area, check.  A common language and traditions, including food, check.  Common religious faith, sort of.

Yeah, I get that and I think it's mostly fair.  The English probably could be considered an ethnic group.  But describing English as an ethnicity just doesn't seem terribly accurate.  If I'm honest I think it's because I don't think there's really any self-identity of an 'English people'.  There's a far less of a tight sense of identity than in the examples I gave.

[Ideologue]

Zoupa can chime in.

He started the whole bit that it wasn't ethnic. I'm not sure to what extent it makes sense to ask a member of a group as ethnic based States are viewed negatively and few would happily accept such a label. Might like asking someone from the Balkans to sort things out.

Srpska had nothing to do with ethnicity.  Look, it has "republic" right in the name!

[mongers]

Most of this makes sense.  But I still don't get why you think the Welsh are an ethnic group but the English are not.  Biologically self perpetuating, check.  Sharing an interest in a specfici geographical area, check.  A common language and traditions, including food, check.  Common religious faith, sort of.

Yeah, I get that and I think it's mostly fair.  The English probably could be considered an ethnic group.  But describing English as an ethnicity just doesn't seem terribly accurate.  If I'm honest I think it's because I don't think there's really any self-identity of an 'English people'.  There's a far less of a tight sense of identity than in the examples I gave.

To some extent,  this is based on your class and possibly educational background, ask any given fan of an English football club and I'd guess they're much more likely to describe themselves as English, as compared to a guardian reader. 

[Sheilbh]

To some extent,  this is based on your class and possibly educational background, ask any given fan of an English football club and I'd guess they're much more likely to describe themselves as English, as compared to a guardian reader.

I describe myself as English.  But I don't think the sense of identity's that tight.  If I'm honest I'd say I'm scouse too and I think there's a stronger sense of identity there too.

[Tamas]

After having the chance to muscle various national teams into adopting the same processes of my company, I have a distinct opinion on French views on their own importance in the grand schemes of this universe.

[CountDeMoney]

After having the chance to muscle various national teams into adopting the same processes of my company, I have a distinct opinion on French views on their own importance in the grand schemes of this universe.

They've earned it.

[Sheilbh]

I was roaming round the subject of English ethnicity and it turns out there's a book by a post-colonial theorist that's recently come out called 'The Idea of English Ethnicity'.  From Wiki:

In his most recent work, The Idea of English Ethnicity (2008)[12] Young returned to the question of race to address an apparent contradiction—the idea of an English ethnicity. Why does ethnicity not seem to be a category applicable to English people? To answer this question, Young reconsiders the way that English identity was classified in historical and racial terms in the nineteenth century. He argues that what most affected this was the relation of England to Ireland after the Act of Union of 1800-1. Initial attempts at excluding the Irish were followed by a more inclusive idea of Englishness which removed the specificities of race and even place. Englishness, Young suggests, was never really about England at all, but was developed as a broader identity, intended to include not only the Irish (and thus deter Irish nationalism) but also the English diaspora around the world—North Americans, South Africans, Australians and New Zealanders, and even, for some writers, Indians and those from the Caribbean. By the end of the nineteenth century, this had become appropriated as an ideology of empire. The delocalisation of the country England from ideas of Englishness (Kipling's "What do they know of England who only England know?") could account for why recent commentators have found Englishness so hard to define—while at the same time providing an explanation of why some of the most English of Englishmen have been Americans. On the other hand, Young argues, its broad principle of inclusiveness also helps to explain why Britain has been able to transform itself into one of the most successful of modern multicultural nations.

Sounds interesting at least.

[garbon]

After having the chance to muscle various national teams into adopting the same processes of my company, I have a distinct opinion on French views on their own importance in the grand schemes of this universe.

They've earned it.

How so?

[Duque de Bragança]

They weren't real languages, just some dialects and patois.

Plus we let them keep their folkloric shit. Good for tourism.

Jacobin
"Les langues régionales font partie du patrimoine de la France." 
Art. 75