GOP Primary Megathread!

[Razgovory]

Okay, I'm not longer sure what you are arguing, then.

Same.

For me, simply that French nationality and the national identity of France isn't ethnically based in any significant way.

I think the problem is that when you say Ethnic you think of it as being primarily biological.  I do not.  While morphological features can play a part, they don't have to.

[garbon]

What about Chineseness?

Same.  Being Chinese is having Chinese nationality.

So for the sake of this discussion we're just making up our own theories with no regard to reality?

[Razgovory]

Seems somewhat tautological.

[Sheilbh]

I think the problem is that when you say Ethnic you think of it as being primarily biological.  I do not.  While morphological features can play a part, they don't have to.

Yeah.  I'd say ethnicity is like race but lighter.

Seems somewhat tautological.

Well if you go back to the point of what is French, and why the treatment of non-French people matters to an argument about Frenchness, then you reach that point.  French is being French, it's having citizenship of France. 

So for the sake of this discussion we're just making up our own theories with no regard to reality?

What gives you that impression?

[Razgovory]

I would argue that ethnicity can be about physical differences but mostly cultural ones.  After all, they are both subjective.  It would be difficult to spot someone who is "Racially" French in a crowd of "racially" Germans and "Racially" Englishmen.

[Ideologue]

The Germans are the ones in well-ordered ranks calling you evil for borrowing money that they asked you to take.

[garbon]

What gives you that impression?

Disavowal of the role in which ethnicity factors into being Chinese. In a poorly chosen turn of.phrase it is like you are whitewashing the messy ethnic history/strife.

[Sheilbh]

I would argue that ethnicity can be about physical differences but mostly cultural ones.  After all, they are both subjective.  It would be difficult to spot someone who is "Racially" French in a crowd of "racially" Germans and "Racially" Englishmen.

That's what I mean by it being lighter.  But again I don't think I'd consider any of those examples as ethnic groups.

[garbon]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group

[Admiral Yi]

That's what I mean by it being lighter.  But again I don't think I'd consider any of those examples as ethnic groups.

What *would* you consider an ethnic group?

[Sheilbh]

What gives you that impression?

Disavowal of the role in which ethnicity factors into being Chinese. In a poorly chosen turn of.phrase it is like you are whitewashing the messy ethnic history/strife.

I think you should read my post again - remembering what me and Raz were talking about.

What you're talking about is part of what makes up Chinese identity which I said I've no knowledge of but would find interesting.

[Sheilbh]

What *would* you consider an ethnic group?

All sorts Welsh, Breton, Cornish, WASP, Kurds, Turks (as ethnicity not nationality), Berbers, Finns (again as opposed to nationality which may be different and surely includes the Sami).

[garbon]

What gives you that impression?

Disavowal of the role in which ethnicity factors into being Chinese. In a poorly chosen turn of.phrase it is like you are whitewashing the messy ethnic history/strife.

I think you should read my post again - remembering what me and Raz were talking about.

What you're talking about is part of what makes up Chinese identity which I said I've no knowledge of but would find interesting.

What is the point in divorcing the concepts if the state uses its powers to enforce the correct identity? Sounds largely like a dishonest use of semantics to suggest such a state is not ethnically based.

[Sheilbh]

What is the point in divorcing the concepts if the state uses its powers to enforce the correct identity? Sounds largely like a dishonest use of semantics to suggest such a state is not ethnically based.

How's it dishonest?

I split the two because I think in most of the West they're split - and they certainly are in France which was the example we were talking about.  I also think it's helpful to split off nationality as a legal idea from national identity which is more cultural.  I'll take your word that China's an ethnic state, that's not a surprise but it also doesn't disagree with what I wrote.

[Admiral Yi]

All sorts Welsh, Breton, Cornish, WASP, Kurds, Turks (as ethnicity not nationality), Berbers, Finns (again as opposed to nationality which may be different and surely includes the Sami).

What makes these ethnic groups and others such as English and German not?