David Frum on the GOP

[Razgovory]

You're covering yourself in glory Raz.

It's better then some of the other stuff I've covered myself in.  Seriously, I have no idea what half your responses mean.

[fhdz]

It's better then some of the other stuff I've covered myself in.  Seriously, I have no idea what half your responses mean.

Then stop claiming victory or putting words in his mouth. Jesus.

[Eddie Teach]

Then stop claiming victory or putting words in his mouth. Jesus.

I'm out.

[dps]

I don't go as far as Skippy.  Compassion should play a role, but compassion should be balanced with the realization that *any* kind of assistance creates disincentives.

My position is essentially that letting compassion drive public policy to any great extent can create disincentives so great that more people end up worse off than otherwise.

[Razgovory]

It's better then some of the other stuff I've covered myself in.  Seriously, I have no idea what half your responses mean.

Then stop claiming victory or putting words in his mouth. Jesus.

I haven't claimed victory.  I asked if I could.

[DGuller]

It's better then some of the other stuff I've covered myself in.  Seriously, I have no idea what half your responses mean.

Then stop claiming victory or putting words in his mouth. Jesus.

I haven't claimed victory.  I asked if I could.

You have my permission. 

[AnchorClanker]

While Frum has some good points to make, I prefer Peggy Noonan when it comes to GOP-course corrections.
If you haven't read any of her stuff, search for it and see what you think.  She's delightfully non-retarded.

[Neil]

Before I waste time looking her up, what's her stance on Nixon?

[Barrister]

Compassion has no place in public policy.  Compassionate conservatism is a suicide pact.  Conservatism should be about conserving the fisc, preserving national security, and being left the hell alone.

Couldn't disagree more strenuously.

Public policy without an element of compassion is not any kind of public policy I want any part of.  Compassion must be an element of every decision, every element, of public policy.

Going right back to basics, conservatism is not about fiscal prudence, national security, and being left alone.  Conservatism is about being conservative, about being careful.  About realizing that our public policies have evolved carefully over centuries, and about realizing that for all its faults, our current system of government (liberal welfare state democracy) is the best form of government in human history.  Now out of those centuries of evolution we have learned that fiscal prudence is essential, that national security is essential, and that limiting (not eliminating) the effect of government on the populace is important.  But that does not make those the first principles of a conservative.

[crazy canuck]

Well said BB.

[Ideologue]

And a good explanation of how conservatism cannot save a society on the precipice.

[Berkut]

That was pretty well said.

Although I don't think Frum;s point was really about what Conservatism ought to be, but rather what it sure as hell ought NOT to be.

And the current iteration if a fucking mess. It is about as bad as it could get, in fact. This embrace of ignorance and willful demand for conformity to principles that simply do not make any fucking sense to anyone on their merits is frightening.

[Jacob]

And the current iteration if a fucking mess. It is about as bad as it could get, in fact. This embrace of ignorance and willful demand for conformity to principles that simply do not make any fucking sense to anyone on their merits is frightening.

Yeah. I'm not directly exposed to US politics, but there are strains I consider downright disturbing.

[Sheilbh]

For my part I mean that public policy shouldn't be based overly on "oh isn't it too bad for those poor people" or whatever. It should be based on maintaining a well functioning society. Food and health care security for the population of a Western country is not a matter of charity and kind feelings, it's a matter of having a society that functions. EI, social security and various other forms of income support should be well regulated insurance schemes guaranteed and administrated by the state. The state should look out for the welfare, economic and otherwise, of the citizenry not because of compassion but because its one of the core function of the state.

I agree with this.  But I think if you've public policy based on libertarian values then you need compassion to temper the rigours of the market.  That's the point in 'Rise of the Meritocracy'.  That's what I found disturbing about Ron Paul's answer about a young man without medical insurance dying.  Libertarianism without space for compassion is just cruel.

I entirely agree with BBoy, I think that compassion's actually a core part of conservatism.  It's in Disraeli, Burke and MacMillan.  I think compassion's an essential part of managing and preserving society which is what a lot of conservatism's about.

[DGuller]

Compassion has no place in public policy.  Compassionate conservatism is a suicide pact.  Conservatism should be about conserving the fisc, preserving national security, and being left the hell alone.

Couldn't disagree more strenuously.

Public policy without an element of compassion is not any kind of public policy I want any part of.  Compassion must be an element of every decision, every element, of public policy.

Going right back to basics, conservatism is not about fiscal prudence, national security, and being left alone.  Conservatism is about being conservative, about being careful.  About realizing that our public policies have evolved carefully over centuries, and about realizing that for all its faults, our current system of government (liberal welfare state democracy) is the best form of government in human history.  Now out of those centuries of evolution we have learned that fiscal prudence is essential, that national security is essential, and that limiting (not eliminating) the effect of government on the populace is important.  But that does not make those the first principles of a conservative.

Can we do a conservative exchange program?  I'll take all the Canadian conservatives if Canada takes all American conservatives.  Hell, I'll even become conservative myself to sweeten the deal.