Neopaganism Is The Worst

[Sheilbh]

I'll give you moral, that is after all their forte. Very few people base their religion in any sort of intellectual framework, however.  Anecdotally I would say neopagans tend to be more intellectual about their religion than people from mainstream religions. YMMV however.

What people base their religion on is irrelevant.  My nan's virtually pagan in her very folk-ish Irish Catholicism, that doesn't diminish the intellectual underpinning and theology of the faith.  I'm sure it's the same for most other Christians, Jews, Muslims and almost all other faiths.  They may not know but there is a rich intellectual framework that coheres their beliefs, the structures of their faith, the nature of their worship and basis of their moral ideology.

[fhdz]

Your statement implies constant changing of a moral outlook.

Not necessarily. Not unless one is growing and learning, certainly. Most of the time the change is a nuance rather than a rebuke of the previous moral position.

If I shoot someone, and feel good about it afterwords, do I redefine shooting people as "good"?

I can virtually guarantee you that there are circumstances in which you'd shoot someone and feel "good" about it - if by "good" we mean that the positive aspects (you saved your family, you avoided being murdered, etc) outweigh the negative aspects of having ended that person's life - and circumstances in which you'd shoot someone and feel "bad" about it.

You're going to have to be more convincing if you would like me to believe that moral development equals moral relativism.

[Malthus]

I'd like all wiccans publicly whipped, have a cross burned into their forehead and then sent to a salt mine.

I've heard you say that before. I know a few Wiccans, and yes, they're pretty annoying in general, but your unbridled hatred is intriguing. I do wonder what's led to it... I sense a story here....

You know that remake of The Wicker Man?

The lead was in fact based on Ed.

[Maximus]

Really?  How are you defining "intellectual framework", here?

Ability to answer the question "why do you believe what you do?" with something more than "because I was raised that way"

[crazy canuck]

Really?  How are you defining "intellectual framework", here?

Ability to answer the question "why do you believe what you do?" with something more than "because I was raised that way"

You are confusing an individual's lack of understand of their religion with the intellectual underpinnings that individual fails to understand.

[Razgovory]

Your statement implies constant changing of a moral outlook.

Not necessarily. Not unless one is growing and learning, certainly. Most of the time the change is a nuance rather than a rebuke of the previous moral position.

If I shoot someone, and feel good about it afterwords, do I redefine shooting people as "good"?

I can virtually guarantee you that there are circumstances in which you'd shoot someone and feel "good" about it - if by "good" we mean that the positive aspects (you saved your family, you avoided being murdered, etc) outweigh the negative aspects of having ended that person's life - and circumstances in which you'd shoot someone and feel "bad" about it.

You're going to have to be more convincing if you would like me to believe that moral development equals moral relativism.

If you don't leave the door open for change, what's the point of reanalyzing?  A person who is shifting moral viewpoint to meet the situation has in effect, no moral viewpoint.  If you have none, then they are all the same.

[Maximus]

What people base their religion on is irrelevant.  My nan's virtually pagan in her very folk-ish Irish Catholicism, that doesn't diminish the intellectual underpinning and theology of the faith.  I'm sure it's the same for most other Christians, Jews, Muslims and almost all other faiths.  They may not know but there is a rich intellectual framework that coheres their beliefs, the structures of their faith, the nature of their worship and basis of their moral ideology.

If they don't know the intellectual framework exists or have an idea of what it entails then it might as well not exist for them.

[crazy canuck]

What people base their religion on is irrelevant.  My nan's virtually pagan in her very folk-ish Irish Catholicism, that doesn't diminish the intellectual underpinning and theology of the faith.  I'm sure it's the same for most other Christians, Jews, Muslims and almost all other faiths.  They may not know but there is a rich intellectual framework that coheres their beliefs, the structures of their faith, the nature of their worship and basis of their moral ideology.

If they don't know the intellectual framework exists or have an idea of what it entails then it might as well not exist for them.

so if some idiot from hillbilly country doesnt understand the rich intellectual traditions of his religion that someone means they dont exist?

[Maximus]

Could you rephrase that?

[Razgovory]

Really?  How are you defining "intellectual framework", here?

Ability to answer the question "why do you believe what you do?" with something more than "because I was raised that way"

Ah, okay.  That's not really indicative of anything.  People do lots of things for reasons they don't understand, it doesn't mean that someone planned out a logical system for why they do it.  Law is a good example, of this.  People follow laws, and laws are based on legal philosophy, but many people don't understand why the laws are the way they are or what they actually mean.  That does not mean it lacks an intellectual framework.

[crazy canuck]

Could you rephrase that?

Your argument that most religions lack an intellectual underpinning is based on a proposition that some people within those religions dont understand the intellectual underpinning.

That is not an argument such an intellectual underpinning does not exist - simply that some do not understand it.  But the failure to understand all the details does not prevent someone from ordering their life in a way that takes adantage the thinking others have already done.

I dont have to understand why all the gadgets I use work but I can still order my life around them...

[Sheilbh]

Could you rephrase that?

Just because some Souther Baptist hillbilly doesn't know about the Institutes of the Christian Religion doesn't mean they weren't written, or don't matter to their faith.

[fhdz]

If you don't leave the door open for change, what's the point of reanalyzing?  A person who is shifting moral viewpoint to meet the situation has in effect, no moral viewpoint.

You can't be serious.

[HVC]

What the candian, the brit, and the crazy guy said


*edit* the lawery canadian, not the expat canadian married to an apparent wiccan

[Razgovory]

If you don't leave the door open for change, what's the point of reanalyzing?  A person who is shifting moral viewpoint to meet the situation has in effect, no moral viewpoint.

You can't be serious.

How would you describe what you are doing?