The Future of the Catholic Church

[Martinus]

I invite Languishites to a debate about the future of the Catholic Church. It seems to be facing a lot of troubles lately. The pedophilia scandals have shaken its foundations in most of Europe and in the USA (a catholic bishop has just apparently been indicted for not reporting a case of child abuse to the authorities - and that could open floodgates for more indictments like that). Spain, one of the most Catholic countries in Europe, has secularized very quickly and it looks like now Ireland and, as the last elections, Poland will follow the suit (the vocally anti-church party is the third force in the parliament, and it is for example more and more common for people to walk out during sermons which become hateful or politicized).

In short, the church in the West seems to be in its biggest crisis since the Enlightenment. So what do you think will happen next? Is it going to weather this crisis like it did before? Will we see some major overhaul of the doctrine? Or perhaps it will adopt the besieged fortress strategy and focus on a small number of hard core Catholics in Europe and, more importantly, in Latin America, Asia and Africa?

[The Brain]

I think that there will be floating churches and priests will have lasers. Also virtual reality confession.

[Grinning_Colossus]

The Church will continue shedding believers in the 1st world and being outcompeted by more compelling forms of voodoo in the 3rd. They'll continue carrying on as they always have and covering their asses when they have to because they don't know what else to do.

[Iormlund]

The Church has no future. In a few decades old age will kill all but a testimonial amount of first world believers. All that will remain will be in backward places like the Philippines, Equatorial Guinea or America.

[Razgovory]

What you are describing is not indicative of a decline of the Church, but rather a decline of the West.  A civilization whose citizens  no longer believe in anything other then themselves is rapidly sliding toward apathy and eventual destruction.

[Martinus]

What you are describing is not indicative of a decline of the Church, but rather a decline of the West.  A civilization whose citizens  no longer believe in anything other then themselves is rapidly sliding toward apathy and eventual destruction.

The boring troll is boring.

[Neil]

What you are describing is not indicative of a decline of the Church, but rather a decline of the West.  A civilization whose citizens  no longer believe in anything other then themselves is rapidly sliding toward apathy and eventual destruction.

The boring troll is boring.

He's right though.

[Viking]

meh... nothing's gonna change, the factors driving the CC to act like dicks today are unchanged, so the behavior will remain unchanged and the problems will remain unsolved. The members are vested so they will believe an bs excuse, the non-members are not vested so we think that reform is required. The dissatisfied members, while sympathetic and rightly aggrieved, are two few in number to amount to any threat to the foundation of the church itself.

As long as the church can maintain itself with cosmetic concessions and payouts to the abused they will continue. Nothing is going to happen until they are about to run out of money or out of priests. Note the former is much more likely than the latter as seen by the Anglican/Episcopalian church importing 3rd world priests to the empty parishes in England.

[Razgovory]

What you are describing is not indicative of a decline of the Church, but rather a decline of the West.  A civilization whose citizens  no longer believe in anything other then themselves is rapidly sliding toward apathy and eventual destruction.

The boring troll is boring.

True, but you shouldn't have started a thread with such an obvious and dull troll.  You have only yourself to blame.

[Zanza]

The Church has no future. In a few decades old age will kill all but a testimonial amount of first world believers. All that will remain will be in backward places like the Philippines, Equatorial Guinea or America.

I think there is a significant minority in society that will stay loyal to the church. It's general influence on society will decline a bit more, but it won't go away any time soon. It's survived two millenia after all.

[Sheilbh]

I think there will be genuine and deep changes of attitude with regard to child abuse and the clergy in general.  It's already happened among the laity and that's now being reflected in the clergy themselves.  The deference and immediate trust has gone.  I think the Irish Church's new policies have been acknowledged as very robust, even in the Cloyne Report, and I think that'll probably be adopted by the Church elsewhere.

At the same time I think on an individual basis the Pope will be a penitent Pontiff, much as JP2 was the pilgrim Pope.  It seems that every trip Benedict's made he has impressed.  The expectations are so low and the liberal, media elite so dismissive that his rather under-stated charm and sincerity work with the crowd in a way they didn't expect.  In addition on every trip he's made he's spent time with victims of clerical abuse.  I think that'll continue and that attempt at healing will be as major a part of his trips as canonisations were for JP2.  Ireland will be the real test for that in 2012.

As to the Church itself I think we'll see Benedict's vision emerge in the next few years.  It'll be a smaller, denser and more coherent church.  I think there'll be less of an attempt to play or lead a political role because of the changes that have already taken place; the Church can't lead politically when deference is dead.

[Sheilbh]

I think there is a significant minority in society that will stay loyal to the church. It's general influence on society will decline a bit more, but it won't go away any time soon. It's survived two millenia after all.

Exactly.  And I think Benedict's okay with that.  Also I think Catholic countries are experiencing this decline more strongly because of the Church's former role.  But in the UK the decline's bottomed out (I think the more conservative, more rigorous churches around are now also growing) and I think the same'll happen elsewhere.  It won't be a terminal decline to nothing.

[Razgovory]

I suspect the Church will see a resurgence some time this century.  People want to be part of something bigger then themselves and people want rules.  A society that says "go off do your own thing, we don't care", is ultimately unrewarding.

[Iormlund]

As to the Church itself I think we'll see Benedict's vision emerge in the next few years.  It'll be a smaller, denser and more coherent church.  I think there'll be less of an attempt to play or lead a political role because of the changes that have already taken place; the Church can't lead politically when deference is dead.

No. Just no. The Pope has been uttering criticisms at Spanish laws on abortion, gay marriage and adoption, euthanasia and so on for years. He is still trying to play the same role as ever. Only nobody pays attention anymore.

[Sheilbh]

No. Just no. The Pope has been uttering criticisms at Spanish laws on abortion, gay marriage and adoption, euthanasia and so on for years. He is still trying to play the same role as ever. Only nobody pays attention anymore.

Yeah the Church'll carry on speaking about these issues,  I think more rigorously than used to be the case.  But the idea of the clericalist state that used to exist in Ireland, and Spain and possibly Poland is dead.  As you indicate no-one listens, I think the Church'll be more or less as it in England.  You'll get articles and interviews with senior clerics on these sort of subjects and the occassional strop (gay adoption) but the sort of clerical arrogance and power that used to exist (certainly in Ireland and I'm projecting onto Spain and Poland) is over.