Skyrim

[grumbler]

A short and amusing take on what is, unfortunately, all too typical:  a mod that only its creator thinks is really a good idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwPaI_AYEbQ

[Syt]

Valve allows paid modding content for Skyrim now. Totalbiscuit's opinion on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGKOiQGeO-k

Wet and Cold currently goes for €4.59, Needs for 3.69, Midas Magic Gold Edition for 5.49, while items tend to range between a few cents and €2.-

Steam is taking 75% of the price.

I generally agree with TB's opinion. Paid modding may attract people who can create higher quality content, and make it easier for larger mod projects to get finished sooner or finished at all. Besides, if someone decides to charge for the work they put into something, they should be able to do so, provided they violate no one else's rights. They shouldn't expect that everyone is willing to pay the price they charge, though.

OTOH, lots of problems to be sorted out yet.

What's a reasonable price for mods (cosmetic items vs. gameplay mods)?
What if a mod uses bits from another mod or otherwise copyrighted material?
What if a mod breaks or is incompatible with something else (actually, the FAQ states you should ask the mod creator for an update)?
Are people willing to pay for mods, when they've been for free for this title for so long?

Also, it seems some people are downloading mods from Nexus and upload them to the Workshop as their own and charge for them.

[Syt]

And Gopher's (Skyrim Mod Sanctuary) take on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt2wSvb6rhw

[Jaron]

We want horse armor!

[Syt]

We want horse armor!

That's actually one of TB's points - a lot of the cosmetic content, if charged for, is essentially horse armor all over again.

[Syt]

And if people think the modding community was drama prone before ...

http://www.pcgamer.com/paid-for-skyrim-mod-removed-in-a-matter-of-hours/

Chesko's Fishing Mod is now the holder of a dubious record: it's the first paid-for Skyrim mod to be removed from sale.

An early test for Valve's unique policing methods, the removal came off the back of claims Chesko and aqqh — the fishing mod's creators — were profiting from the work of fellow modder Fore without the latter's permisison.

See, the fishing mod used assets from Fore's New Idles in Skyrim — fine in the world of free mods, but not something that's kosher in the world of for-profit modding.
Screengrabs were, of course, grabbed before things went quiet on the Workshop page:





And since then — well, see for yourself: the mod is gone, and there are just a few confused people milling around, wondering what this brave new world of paid mods holds for them.

We're still in super-early days and teething issues like this are sure to occur, but it does serve as a warning shot to the Old Way of modding. Just make sure you've got permission if you want to sell the thing, okay?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I've got the impression that Valve will be in the running for the next Worst-Company-Award. The people at EA should be glad.

I also wonder what the effects will be on the modding-scene for the next ES or Fallout game. might not be positive if it results in a product that is just not as moddable as previous iterations to begin with.

[Syt]

I think it's a bit weird to start with an old title to test this out. If you were doing it with a new title and announcing it from the start, the response would probably be a lot less hostile.

For the time being it remains to be seen how this goes.

I see two likely outcomes:
- after a while the market will reach a stage where some mods are free, some are not, and the pricing has found a level where people will buy them and the creators earn enough to be motivated (though with Valve taking 75% - of which probably some money goes to Bethesda - that might be hard)
- people by and large refuse to pay for mods and turn to free alternatives, so that most mod creators won't bother (with the possible exception of full expansion level mods, or maybe things of the size of the KotOR2 Restoration Project or Morrowind's Complete Overhaul).

[garbon]

I think it's a bit weird to start with an old title to test this out.

[Grey Fox]

Can mods still be free?

[Syt]

Can mods still be free?

Yes. Making them for pay is optional. Considering that the start of the program already had 17 approved mods-for-pay makes it seem that Valve/Bethesda had reached out to creators of some mods if they'd be interested, and to provide an updated version of their mod.

I think something I take issue with is that if you buy a mod, and a patch breaks it, you have no way to get a refund after the initial 24h no questions asked refund period (refund = credit in your Steam wallet).

[grumbler]

I think that Gopher probably has the most well-thought-out take on this.  Once the dust settles, both mod creators and mod users are going to realize that:
(1) people are not going to pay for mere retextures and fancy swords/horse armor, and
(2) it is actually going to be worthwhile to work on, and pay for, the big quest mods with lots of quests and places and voice-acted NPCs and the like. 

As for (1), anything one person can do in a matter of hours and charge for, another can do also and release for free.  The current lineup of paid mods on Steam contains not a single mod I would have downloaded were it free.

As for (2), how many mods have we seen abandoned part-way through because the mod authors ran out of ambition? Remember  Tamriel Rebuilt? Still in Alpha after ten years of work?  I don't mind paying $5 for a game that gives maybe ten hours of new gameplay. 

My biggest worry is the quality control and review quality aspects.  Gopher is pretty much my go-to guy when it comes to trying to figure out what Skyrim mods are worth looking at.  presumably, he will be getting review copies of the paid mods.  Will he honesty regarding mod quality cost him his review copies because valve or the mod authors don't like his honesty costing them business?  Will mod authors steer their review copies only to reviewers that are pretty much guaranteed to give them good reviews, no matter how awful their mod is, much like current computer games?  Will we, as users, have the self-discipline to eschew good-sounding mods that avoid critical review?

I am not concerned about being unable to get the mods i want for a reasonable expenditure of effort or money.  I am concerned that there is now an incentive to create good-sounding mods that are crap for execution, and then hiding this fact by not allowing critical review.

A side concern is that the modding community is getting badly fractured by this idea.  A lot of modders oppose the paid-for idea and don't want to cooperate with modders who plan to charge for mods.  I can see a lot of heartbreak in store here.

[grumbler]

I think it's a bit weird to start with an old title to test this out. If you were doing it with a new title and announcing it from the start, the response would probably be a lot less hostile.

If you tried to work out the mechanics with a new game, you are potentially doing a new brand a lot of harm.  By working out the kinks on an older game that already has an established mod community and candidate mods that have been tested, you risk much less.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

My biggest worry is the quality control and review quality aspects.  Gopher is pretty much my go-to guy when it comes to trying to figure out what Skyrim mods are worth looking at.  presumably, he will be getting review copies of the paid mods.  Will he honesty regarding mod quality cost him his review copies because valve or the mod authors don't like his honesty costing them business?  Will mod authors steer their review copies only to reviewers that are pretty much guaranteed to give them good reviews, no matter how awful their mod is, much like current computer games?  Will we, as users, have the self-discipline to eschew good-sounding mods that avoid critical review?

mod-piracy. It'll happen

[grumbler]

My biggest worry is the quality control and review quality aspects.  Gopher is pretty much my go-to guy when it comes to trying to figure out what Skyrim mods are worth looking at.  presumably, he will be getting review copies of the paid mods.  Will he honesty regarding mod quality cost him his review copies because valve or the mod authors don't like his honesty costing them business?  Will mod authors steer their review copies only to reviewers that are pretty much guaranteed to give them good reviews, no matter how awful their mod is, much like current computer games?  Will we, as users, have the self-discipline to eschew good-sounding mods that avoid critical review?

mod-piracy. It'll happen

You can't play the game or mDLC without a valid Steam account with the proper codes for the purchasable material right now.  Why wouldn't Steam eventually do the same for mods they are getting paid for?  piracy is a lot harder in the Steam regime than the old get-it-and-forget-it regime.