Skyrim

[Grey Fox]

Skyrim is easy to pirate. Single Player games are no problem.

[grumbler]

Skyrim is easy to pirate. Single Player games are no problem.

I'll take your word for it.  I guess there is no concern about paid mods, then, since pirating them is no problem for you, I'll just ask you to pirate the mods and send them to me.

[Grey Fox]

Very well. Send me a list. I tried Skyrim, it's not a game for me.

[DontSayBanana]

I'll take your word for it.  I guess there is no concern about paid mods, then, since pirating them is no problem for you, I'll just ask you to pirate the mods and send them to me.

What he's saying is that it's technically easy (though it sounds like it might not be an ethical dilemma for him either).  Like it or not, this is a poor choice to test paid mods because the bypass is dead simple: Steam workshop still has to dump the code into the game client- it's not run from a server at all.

All that needs to be done is that an account needs to legitimately obtain the mod files from Steam Workshop.  Since Skyrim doesn't use any kind of auth server, the raw code is put entirely into the client's data folder.  From there, the pirate could just package up the mod files and upload to a freebie mod archive.  In the absolute worst case (injected program code via a mechanism like SkyUI), they'd just do a clean install, download the mod, byte-compare the program before and after installing the mod, and package up a quick script to inject the relevant code.

Steam can't add an auth server into the mix at this point without destroying a lot of players' games (especially ones who are sideloading mods via Nexus instead of Steam Workshop).  It would have been a more secure choice to use a game that's authorized at launch, like anything using UPlay.

[DontSayBanana]

Separate post for my take on the ethicality of paid mods:

The system as is will NOT attract more skilled modding talent, because Valve's and the publisher's cuts on these transactions are so ludicrous it would be impossible to even remotely tie it to a fair market value.  If a modder thinks they need $5 market value to complete it, they're going to need to charge $20 for the mod.  Long story short, unless the modder is absolutely convinced they'll make it back in volume, there's a huge disincentive to charge any less than $4 per mod, and that's expensive horse armor.

[Solmyr]

So what stops from doing this:

1. Pay for mod, download it.
2. Copy mod files separately and install them via Mod Organizer.
3. Get refund on mod within 24 hours.
4. Keep playing with your copied mod installed.

[Solmyr]

Chesko (author of Frostfall, etc) posted this: http://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33qcaj/the_experiment_has_failed_my_exit_from_the/

[Crazy_Ivan80]

http://www.nexusmods.com/games/news/12454/?

revised donation-policy: namely making it clearer that you can actually donate if you like. Or not...

[Grallon]

The shitstorm around this is only getting bigger.  I love it!

This was either the brainchild of a few greedy individuals at Valve/Bethesda or it's a strategy to kill free modding so that only DLCs have sway.  Considering human nature, it could be both at once.



G.

[grumbler]

Separate post for my take on the ethicality of paid mods:

The system as is will NOT attract more skilled modding talent, because Valve's and the publisher's cuts on these transactions are so ludicrous it would be impossible to even remotely tie it to a fair market value.  If a modder thinks they need $5 market value to complete it, they're going to need to charge $20 for the mod.  Long story short, unless the modder is absolutely convinced they'll make it back in volume, there's a huge disincentive to charge any less than $4 per mod, and that's expensive horse armor.

Where did you find the details of the split between the authors and the publishers?  All I have ever seen is DarkOne's guess that it might be 25/75, but that was just a guess that a number of people had to accept because they didn't yet know.

Nevermind.  Found it in Chesko's post.

[grumbler]

What he's saying is that it's technically easy (though it sounds like it might not be an ethical dilemma for him either).  Like it or not, this is a poor choice to test paid mods because the bypass is dead simple: Steam workshop still has to dump the code into the game client- it's not run from a server at all.

If the objective is to make a lot of money, this is a poor choice.  If the objective is to test feasibility, it is not.  There is already a massive player and modder base for Skyrim, so ypu'd only need to convince maybe 2-5% of them to participate in paid mods to get an idea of feasibility.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

 It's gonna be hell for modders if they create a new engine for Fallout 4. For those that aren't familiar, the modding scene goes through a learning/discovery phase when a new game/mod tool comes out. There is documentation, generally, but it's often hard to understand, and there are lots of tricks you can force the modding tools to do that results in cool stuff.

The Skyrim modding scene start was like a gold mine rush. People were reporting like every hour on the nexusmod forums about new tips and tricks of stuff you could do and it was awesome. Without this, a lot of stuff would not have been done.

Now if we look at the potential Fallout 4, what happens then? No one will want to share. If you're the first person/group to figure out a way to push the modding tool into modifying the behavioral AI, and other peoples are mining at it but can't figure it out, what would you do? Hoard that knowledge and create a unique mod that others can't recreate, obviously!

It will basically turn one of the most helpful and generous modding community into basically nothing. Nobody will want to help each other except core modders that have known each other for years. New modders will be shunned as "Quick money cunts" or whatever, no help will be given to those, I can guarantee you that.

->an interesting thought copied over from here (https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33quz6/skyui_pretty_much_one_of_the_most_essential_mods/) following the news that SkyUI's version 5 is going behind the Great Paywall of Steam

->another thought: in the worst case scenario all mods would become payable DLC-things. But given that there are people with hundreds of mods active. Even assuming a low price of 1$/€ per mod you're looking at a steep price for a game here. Very steep indeed.

[grumbler]

I think that the "horde the knowledge" aspect of the modding scene is probably the least worrisome.  As soon as someone comes out with a method for doing something, everyone will copy it.  You can't copyright a method for doing something in someone else's system, because it can be independently discovered.  You can claim textures and meshes and animations, but not methods of using Bethesda's software.  Hell, even the knowledge that X can be done will lead others to figuring out how to do X.

[Norgy]

I'm conflicted. Could someone please tell me how to feel about this? 

[Syt]

I wait and see for now until the drama has calmed down.