Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[garbon]

Vipes, I read this and thought of you.

Me: "Hi! Welcome to [restaurant]; will it just be the two of you dining today?"

Woman: *in a thick French accent* "Yes, two."

(The female customer then turns to her male companion and begins speaking very angrily in French.)

Woman: "This is just terrible; no one here speaks French. This is discrimination; we should be able to get service in our own language."

Me: *speaking French* "I apologize. I didn't realize that the two of you spoke French. I'd be more than happy to help you today!"

Woman: *speaking English* "Ugh! Your French is just awful! Don't even bother; I'm going to speak English. I don't want to have to listen to your terrible accent for our entire meal."

[viper37]

If it happenned in Montreal, I can understand the frustration of the customer, even though she's a bitch.

[viper37]

Go on then Viper.  Educate me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Wong_controversy
Wong suggested that the school shootings might have been related to the fact that the perpetrators were not old-stock French Québécois; and they had been alienated by a Quebec society concerned with "racial purity."

If this isn't a racial slur, what is it??  She is portraying us as nazis.


Another one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Kay_controversy

This one, although it hit close to the mark, goes one to generalise to all of Quebec ("The Rise of Quebecistan was the title of this piece) has anti-semitic views, and mentions the anti-semetic past of Quebec, while conveniently ignoring that it was no better in Canada.  In fact, one could say that modern neo-nazis group are more prevalent in Western Canada than in Quebec, and Heritage Front was at one time very close to the Reform Party and the Canadian Alliance.

Instead of taking the direct approach, she's subtly hinting that we're all a bunch of nazis.
Now, I'll gladly admit the QPC reaction was just as idiotic.  But it doesn't excuse Kay's grossly exagerated and barely factual op-ed.


He's another one of our friends, Howard Galganov:
He worked to bring awareness to those outside of Quebec on the human rights abuses being enacted in Quebec against anglophones, as noted by both the United Nations and the Supreme Court of Canada.

Now, tell me, seriously.  When you read this: "human rights abuses", what comes to your mind?  And how is it worst than what is happening to French Canadians everywhere, often unable to obtain sufficient founding or even outright education in their language?
Do you think that Manitoba was home to human rights abuses against the French up to the mid-90s?  Ontario for trying to shut down Montfort Hospital?  British Columbia for not providing sufficient funds to french public schools? Alberta for not offering subsidized French education everywhere from pre-kindergarden to post university?

[garbon]

If it happenned in Montreal, I can understand the frustration of the customer, even though she's a bitch.

Site just said Canada. Oh and yeah, probably totally reasonable for a person to assume that someone doesn't speak French if they approach in English. Weren't you the one who said English is always used first in Montreal?

[crazy canuck]

Crap, I lost my post - I am not going to retype that one.

But the upshot is this - everyone one of those stories were about someone talking about the politics of Quebec.  If that is what you think those stories are the equivalent of calling someone a nigger then you and I have a very different view of the world.

[viper37]

Oh and yeah, probably totally reasonable for a person to assume that someone doesn't speak French if they approach in English. Weren't you the one who said English is always used first in Montreal?

First line:
"Me: "Hi! Welcome to [restaurant]; will it just be the two of you dining today?""
The waitress used english first.  It's acceptable in Toronto, not in Montreal.  It gives the impression she doesn't speak french.

[viper37]

But the upshot is this - everyone one of those stories were about someone talking about the politics of Quebec.  If that is what you think those stories are the equivalent of calling someone a nigger then you and I have a very different view of the world.

oh come one.  They are broad generalization of a people based on an exageration of the effect of the laws.
That be like saying all those people with "ISRAEL=NAZI" signs are simply critics of Israel policies toward colonization of the west bank and East Jerusalem.  Same as people burning GW Bush dummies were "only critics of United States foreign policy".  If someone was to burn and trample the Canadian flag, you'd say it's a simple critic of the country's policies?

[garbon]

But again, you are the one who told me that people always approach with English first in Montreal.

[garbon]

Besides, even if that was a faux pas, that doesn't explain acting haughty once the waitress apologized.

[crazy canuck]

But the upshot is this - everyone one of those stories were about someone talking about the politics of Quebec.  If that is what you think those stories are the equivalent of calling someone a nigger then you and I have a very different view of the world.

oh come one.  They are broad generalization of a people based on an exageration of the effect of the laws.
That be like saying all those people with "ISRAEL=NAZI" signs are simply critics of Israel policies toward colonization of the west bank and East Jerusalem.  Same as people burning GW Bush dummies were "only critics of United States foreign policy".  If someone was to burn and trample the Canadian flag, you'd say it's a simple critic of the country's policies?

Its nowhere close to saying that.  The first is an off the whole sociological mumbo jumbo piece regarding alienation.  The second is rooted in a concern that anti-Israeli voices get more of a hearing (which was entirely valid at the time of that article given that pro-Israeli speakers couldnt speak at universities in Quebec because the administrations of those universities knucked under the pressure of protest groups) and I have no idea where you are going with the third one.

[viper37]

Besides, even if that was a faux pas, that doesn't explain acting haughty once the waitress apologized.

I didn't excuse that, I said she was a bitch...   It happens everytime, even between francophones.  Don't tell me it never happens in New York?  I heard it happens in Switzerland, though...

[viper37]

But again, you are the one who told me that people always approach with English first in Montreal.

not always. Often, more than "occasionally".  It gets annoying, especially when you know they are francophones.  But anyway, unless I see it's a tourist seeking his way, or on the verge of dying in a Subway because "No Mustard, I'm allergic" is answered by "ok, a lot of mustard" in French , I usually avoid english in my home province.  There's no reason francophones should speak english between each another, outside of special circumstances.

[viper37]

Its nowhere close to saying that.

Actually, it is.  The first one clearly compairs us with nazis.  The third one, at the very least, refers to 3rd world countries where even the US would hesitate to transfer foreign prisoners.

(which was entirely valid at the time of that article given that pro-Israeli speakers couldnt speak at universities in Quebec because the administrations of those universities knucked under the pressure of protest groups) and I have no idea where you are going with the third one.

Pro-Isralei speakers come all the time in various universities.  Concordia, one of Montreal's english university, however, has an habit of being anti-israeli.  You do know that we have more than one university?  Besides, wasn't Ann Coulter speech cancelled in Ottawa?  Do you think Ontarians are massively anti-americans?  I can't remember the Globe&Mail saying so...

[Neil]

I personally think of Quebecois as Nazis.  Viper would be Eichmann, Grallon would be Rohm and Grey Fox would be like a Rudolf Hoss commanding a camp where they re-educate people to speak really bad French.

Edit:  Oex is Rosenberg, Rex Francorum is the guy who did the soundtrack for Triumph of the Will.

[garbon]

But again, you are the one who told me that people always approach with English first in Montreal.

not always. Often, more than "occasionally".  It gets annoying, especially when you know they are francophones.  But anyway, unless I see it's a tourist seeking his way, or on the verge of dying in a Subway because "No Mustard, I'm allergic" is answered by "ok, a lot of mustard" in French , I usually avoid english in my home province.  There's no reason francophones should speak english between each another, outside of special circumstances.

I don't think I'll ever understand your position. It doesn't bother me one bit if someone starts speaking to me in another language.