Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[garbon]

I could see it if you didn't know English but you do, so it isn't as though it is making your life more difficult. At least in my scenario there would be a little difficulty as I wouldn't know what they were saying but if they switched languages like the waitress did, wouldn't be a problem.

In fact, there are plenty of people I deal with regularly that have such broken English that it makes more sense to just rely on the typical social script and I've no problem with that.

Well, I find it abnormal that people who spent their entire lives in Quebec, especially those whose family was here for more than one generation not to speak a word of french.  I find it distasteful from these people and a clear sign of disrespect.

They live here, in a place where the majority speaks french, yet they treat us like they are colonial masters.

I can understand recent immigrants, but people born&raised in Quebec refusing to learn the damn language? You think a francophone could survive outside of Quebec without knowing english?  How about in New York?  Could I live my life in French, teach only French to my kids&grandkids and expect that we all have a prosperous life?  It didn't seem to work that well before, but who knows...

Actually there are people in the US who live their lives barely speaking any English. Now I personally feel sad for them as they can't ever fully participate in wider society without English but I don't get angry that they've chosen to not learn English.  Other than themselves (and even this is questionable as their goals and motivations in life might not match my own), who are they harming?

[Ed Anger]

I know I'm not offended that a goodly chunk of Holmes county ohio doesn't speak the English at home.

[Admiral Yi]

I agree with the Grab On, but viper's sentiment is something you hear a lot from Yuros.

[Maximus]

When you live in the 19th century it is important that as many people as possible speak your language so that you have the maximum number of soldiers when the Great War arrives.

[garbon]

Viper, I thought of you today when I accidentally called the front desk at our Montreal office. I didn't get anxious when they answered with bonjour. Similarly, the number to call to bypass the front desk (i.e. to dial an extension directly) has a recording of some woman speaking in french with what I presume is a message telling me that if I know the extension of the party I wish to contact that I should dial it now and press pound.  Again, not really an issue though it is the case that either way for me to contact someone in our Canadian office, I have to hear French.

[garbon]

I agree with the Grab On, but viper's sentiment is something you hear a lot from Yuros.

I remember when I first heard about institutions that determine what are and are not words in their respective languages. I was very confused by the notion.

[viper37]

Actually there are people in the US who live their lives barely speaking any English.

5% of all US citizens do not speak english at all, they are mostly recent immigrants, and no state is forced to provide them with education and services in their languages.

Other than themselves (and even this is questionable as their goals and motivations in life might not match my own), who are they harming?

it's a question of attitude.  I consider it rude for an english person to refuse to learn French while living in Quebec.  It's a reminder that they still think they are our colonial masters.  It is a distaful behavior.  That's why I'm not giving them any chance.  I don't mind tourists, I don't expect people to learn every language of every country they visit.  But people established here for more than one generation?  No way I'm using english with them in Montreal.

[viper37]

Viper, I thought of you today when I accidentally called the front desk at our Montreal office. I didn't get anxious when they answered with bonjour. Similarly, the number to call to bypass the front desk (i.e. to dial an extension directly) has a recording of some woman speaking in french with what I presume is a message telling me that if I know the extension of the party I wish to contact that I should dial it now and press pound.  Again, not really an issue though it is the case that either way for me to contact someone in our Canadian office, I have to hear French.

But it's Montreal, not Houston.  I often had more chances of finding a franco in California than in Toronto.  Weird.

[viper37]

It sure does bother some people in the US though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-only_movement#The_modern_English-only_movement
In a country where 95% of people speak the de facto official language.

Maybe if 95% of Canadians spoke french, we wouldn't even have language laws in Quebec.  Maybe it wouldn't bother anyone if the odd person spoke only english in Montreal.

[garbon]

5% of all US citizens do not speak english at all, they are mostly recent immigrants, and no state is forced to provide them with education and services in their languages.

Ok? Not sure of your point given that you live in a country with two official languages. Also, there are varying degrees of proficiency. My friend's Vietnamese mother spoke a few phrases sure but that was it.

it's a question of attitude.  I consider it rude for an english person to refuse to learn French while living in Quebec.  It's a reminder that they still think they are our colonial masters.  It is a distaful behavior.  That's why I'm not giving them any chance.  I don't mind tourists, I don't expect people to learn every language of every country they visit.  But people established here for more than one generation?  No way I'm using english with them in Montreal.

Really you think that an average, everyday person is thinking about whether or not they are a colonial master?

Besides, what if they are just really bad at languages? Doesn't it make sense to speak to the one language that will carry them further around the world?

[garbon]

Viper, I thought of you today when I accidentally called the front desk at our Montreal office. I didn't get anxious when they answered with bonjour. Similarly, the number to call to bypass the front desk (i.e. to dial an extension directly) has a recording of some woman speaking in french with what I presume is a message telling me that if I know the extension of the party I wish to contact that I should dial it now and press pound.  Again, not really an issue though it is the case that either way for me to contact someone in our Canadian office, I have to hear French.

But it's Montreal, not Houston.  I often had more chances of finding a franco in California than in Toronto.  Weird.

So? I think it could be decently argued that as I work at a company with offices in Montreal, NYC, London, Shanghai, Johannesburg and Kuala Lumpur that employees shouldn't be forced to listen to a language other than English when they want to call their colleagues - given that is the one language that all of us have in common.

Note I also think that would be a ridiculous position to take.

[garbon]

It sure does bother some people in the US though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-only_movement#The_modern_English-only_movement
In a country where 95% of people speak the de facto official language.

So your take is that one should get offended over small things because we have bigots in this country that get offended over small things?

Maybe if 95% of Canadians spoke french, we wouldn't even have language laws in Quebec.  Maybe it wouldn't bother anyone if the odd person spoke only english in Montreal.

But why would they? What's the utility value of speaking French, in Canada, outside of Quebec* if you aren't dealing regularly with French speakers?

Sidebar but what do you think about the idea that we should make people learn Spanish around the US? I took a quick look at wiki and if I take the proportion of people who speak Spanish in the US (including those who learned it as a foreign language or it is their 2nd language) out of total pop - roughly 16% of people speak Spanish (looks like ~12% as primary language). In Canada, roughly 23% of people report French as their main language.  Now US % is clearly smaller but is it an affront if people don't learn English who live in Southwestern states? How about the US as a whole?

*added in caveat of outside of Quebec as apparently there is utility value in not having predominantly French speakers pissed at you if you don't learn French and you live in Quebec.

[Razgovory]

Actually there are people in the US who live their lives barely speaking any English.

5% of all US citizens do not speak english at all, they are mostly recent immigrants, and no state is forced to provide them with education and services in their languages.

Other than themselves (and even this is questionable as their goals and motivations in life might not match my own), who are they harming?

it's a question of attitude.  I consider it rude for an english person to refuse to learn French while living in Quebec.  It's a reminder that they still think they are our colonial masters.  It is a distaful behavior.  That's why I'm not giving them any chance.  I don't mind tourists, I don't expect people to learn every language of every country they visit.  But people established here for more than one generation?  No way I'm using english with them in Montreal.

Have you ever thought about seeing a doctor about this?  In the US this is called "paranoia".

[Neil]

What's rude is living in Canada for generations, but not learning and exclusively using English.

[viper37]

Ok? Not sure of your point given that you live in a country with two official languages. Also, there are varying degrees of proficiency. My friend's Vietnamese mother spoke a few phrases sure but that was it.

See Neil's answer

Really you think that an average, everyday person is thinking about whether or not they are a colonial master?

Again, see Neil's answer.  Canada is a bilingual country on paper, not in fact.  Neil might be joking, but it's the prevalent attitude among english canadians.  Most don't say it of course, but you just have to look at the reactions we get whenever someone ask for his rights to receive services in french.

Besides, what if they are just really bad at languages? Doesn't it make sense to speak to the one language that will carry them further around the world?

Oh come on.  85% of Canadians are bad at languages?  You live in on island where the majority speaks French, yet you're so bad at languages that you are never able to learn the language of the majority? 

English Canadians living in Quebec have to make a choice to not learn French, and many still do.  That's why many young english-montrealers chose to leave for Toronto.  You'll hear people boasting about their proficiency in some local african dialect dur to their travel, yet, learning french never crossed their mind.  This is the mantality of many anglo-Quebecers.  It's just no use to learn the language of the majority, they will adapt.

It's not a conscious decision to be rude and whine all the time that you're human rights aren't respected (if only they knew what it meant), but it's a prevalent attitude in a social group.

Just like racism in the southern US.  Many people don't make a conscious choice of being distrutful of blacks (and vice-versa), but generations of social conditioning has lead to this.