Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[Malthus]

Again, if it was an isolated incident, I would understand, but again, this is Air Canada. It's been years that they have been targeted by the Commissioner: "Institutions such as Air Canada and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have shown little or no resolve to address language-of-work issues that have persisted for years". I have had the same experience much more than once. So, quite frankly, I will not shed tears over Air Canada.

And, again, you must understand that for one Michel Thibodeau, there are thousands of Quebeckers who say nothing, because they know it will take time and effort. I know the ROC media delights in stories such as these - precisely because they fit the "Quebecois are whiny bitches" trope - but the dynamics of language use in Canada are resignation. No one wants to wait 1 hour more for the Border agent who speaks French to show up.

Please note that it wasn't us English Canadians who brought up this story - it was Viper, who brought up the blogsphere reaction to this story as an example of Anglo Canadians acting like "crybabies".

The point here is that a hostile reaction to people who sue for big bucks over trifles isn't exactly unknown to the world's media.

My guess is Grallon wants exactly what he wrote: the end of the pretenses of bilingualism.

So having nobody accomodated in French is better somehow than having people accomodated, albeit imperfectly? 

It is always good to claim its not about the money  - the best evidence is did he keep that money or donate it to charity.  My guess is he kept it but I stand to be corrected.

I think this is a fallacy. One might be both politically motivated and tempted to keep the money. Just like Warren Buffet equivalents might wish for political measures to raise taxes without volunteering to pay more to the government.
[/quote]
One can sue for declaratory relief, or injunctive relief. There is nothing requiring one to ask for a half million in damages for a trifling violation.

[crazy canuck]

I am quite certain that if you walk into a Post Office in Quesnel BC you will most likely not be able to be served in French except in the most rudimentary way.   

You do know that Thibodeau's flight was between Montreal and Ottawa?

What is the significance of that.  Both are multilingual cities.  The passenger was multilingual.  Putting the statutory obligation aside for the moment why isnt it reasonable to assume passengers could speak either official language?  my bet is he waited for the one stewardess who didnt speak French and pounced.

[crazy canuck]

You should travel more often through the small towns of Quebec.

I am sure I have heard on more than one occasion of communities that speak only French.  Perhaps this is changing and that may be the source of Grallon's particular anger.

[Malthus]

What you're saying is that Canadian corporations should not respect the laws of the country.
Mind you, he wasn't asking 525 000$ for one 7-up, but for multiple infractions over multiple flights.  Air Canada always promised to correct the situation, they never did.  Wich is why he asked for 525 000$.

I'm inclined to let Air Canada forget about compliance to the Official languages act.  But I want the end of their monopoly over interior flights.  I don't expect bilingual flight attendants with US Airways, so if I can't have it on Air Canada, then by all means, invite the Americans, the Quatari and the Russians to compete with them.  Strangely, it's not something that Canadians want.

A French spealing citizen has the right to be served in French all accross the country.  Not be expelled from a flight for asking for it.

No, I'm saying that a trifling violation of regulations isn't worth a half-million in damages, because the guy is hardly injured to the extent of a half million dollars by failure to be served a 7 Up in French. There is a bit of a middle excluded here ... 

If he was expelled *mid-flight*, then I could see it. 

[crazy canuck]

Yes.  When you speak of compensation you speak of making someone whole because of actual damage done to them.  So, yes, of course it is about the money.

Ok. You are stretching it quite a lot farther than I. In our societies, where the principle of monetary compensation has been applied to a whole range of behaviours, I do not necessarily see every desire for justice to be "about the money".

Please give specifics.  The principle of monetary compensation for something other than actual damages suffered has a pretty limited scope and so it would be helpful to know what you have in mind.  For example in this very case his damage award was minor (although some would still be surprised by the amount) because he suffered no damage to speak of.

[Oexmelin]

What is the significance of that.  Both are multilingual cities.  The passenger was multilingual.  Putting the statutory obligation aside for the moment why isnt it reasonable to assume passengers could speak either official language?  my bet is he waited for the one stewardess who didnt speak French and pounced.

The significance is precisely that you claimed it was unreasonable to expect French services in the middle of nowhere BC. The converse seemed to be that it would be reasonable to expect French service between a city with a majority of French speakers and the National capital of a formally bilingual country.

Even if we allow for Thibodeau's malice, it seems still quite extraordinary to find a unilingual anglophone steward between Montreal and Ottawa. But I imagine this will not be termed "reasonable expectation" either.

You do realize that the moment we are speaking of French services outside of Quebec, you are, in 95% of cases, be confronted with "multilingual speakers", and thus, any demand for French service would be termed "unreasonable" following your argument?

[Malthus]

What is the significance of that.  Both are multilingual cities.  The passenger was multilingual.  Putting the statutory obligation aside for the moment why isnt it reasonable to assume passengers could speak either official language?  my bet is he waited for the one stewardess who didnt speak French and pounced.

The significance is precisely that you claimed it was unreasonable to expect French services in the middle of nowhere BC. The converse seemed to be that it would be reasonable to expect French service between a city with a majority of French speakers and the National capital of a formally bilingual country.

Even if we allow for Thibodeau's malice, it seems still quite extraordinary to find a unilingual anglophone steward between Montreal and Ottawa. But I imagine this will not be termed "reasonable expectation" either.

You do realize that the moment we are speaking of French services outside of Quebec, you are, in 95% of cases, be confronted with "multilingual speakers", and thus, any demand for French service would be termed "unreasonable" following your argument?

The reason why airlines are within federal jurisdiction (and thus subject to federal regulation, and to bilingual language policies) is exactly because airplanes fly between places, such as various provinces; thus it is impossible, or at least very difficult, to subject them to the regime of any one province, as an airplane flying between (say) Montreal and Ottawa one day, may be flying between Ottawa and Regina the next, and between Regina and Victoria the day after.

Thus it would make ne sense, or greatly complicate staffing, to make seperate crews for particular within-province flights; hence, the idea that they all be bilingual - at least, in theory.

[viper37]

You should travel more often through the small towns of Quebec.

I am sure I have heard on more than one occasion of communities that speak only French.  Perhaps this is changing and that may be the source of Grallon's particular anger.

Ah, there's two things.
The language people use in their daily lives: 99% French.  Speak French at work, watch french tv, listen to french radio, listen english music.
But if necessary, in restaurants and other "tourists" places, there will be bilingual staff.  I've never seen an english speaker having trouble ordering at a restaurant, and they even have bilingual or english menus on demand at most restaurants of decent size around here.   Yet, it's very french.  People don't read english newspapers, don't watch american or canadian tv shows unless they're dubbed, they don't read english books, etc, etc.

But they can still use english to give appropriate service to english speakers travelling through the town.

Montreal is a different matter.  In Montreal, you have to fight to get a French menu or have the waitress speak French to you.  In many stores, the staff will not speak french, only english to the clients.

I was remarquably surprised at Ottawa on my last trip.  Once I explained to the waitress I would need a few minutes to translate for my friends, she sent someone else with french menu to take our orders.  Didn't have to ask.

The Keg may not be the finest of what Ottawa has to offer in terms of restaurants, but I'll sure eat there again the next time I got.
Cathering to your customer's needs is a way to survive as a business.  Having a government regulated monopoly is another.
Being a monopoly doesn't exclude rude behavior.  It's not like it's the first time Air Canada is in trouble.

And as can be seen by the various comments here & on the blogs, English Canadians totally ignore that and judge this immediatly as a frivolous lawsuit.  Yet, some Quebec anglophone suing the government because he doesn't have english only signs on his street is not.  Weird country.

[crazy canuck]

You do realize that the moment we are speaking of French services outside of Quebec, you are, in 95% of cases, be confronted with "multilingual speakers", and thus, any demand for French service would be termed "unreasonable" following your argument?

No, go back and read my post where I said resources should be spent where language of choice services is more critical.  Ordering a 7up in the language of your choice does not seem that critical.  You realize I assume that having a french speaker available for each of those 95% of cases would be unreasonable and I used extreme examples to make the point clearly.

Or do you really require someone fluent in French be in a post office in Quesnel BC in case one day someone might enter that buiding asking for service in French?

[viper37]

Or do you really require someone fluent in French be in a post office in Quesnel BC in case one day someone might enter that buiding asking for service in French?

Yes.  Just as there's always someone bilingual in my post office.

[Razgovory]

God, I'm glad we haven't adopted a "National Language".

[Berkut]

Are there really that many people who ONLY speak French in Canada?

[Oexmelin]

Please note that it wasn't us English Canadians who brought up this story - it was Viper, who brought up the blogsphere reaction to this story as an example of Anglo Canadians acting like "crybabies".

The point here is that a hostile reaction to people who sue for big bucks over trifles isn't exactly unknown to the world's media.

Your second point would be valid, if the commentary over the media had been focused over this guy's charming personality. Rather, it became yet another spin over "whiny Quebecois".

As for your first point, I try to differenciate between Languish posters, media reception, and my political generalizations (which I do think are unavoidable, to a large extent). Comments over how things are portrayed in the media need not to implicate you, CC, Buddha or any other "you English Canadians".

[crazy canuck]

Being a monopoly doesn't exclude rude behavior.  It's not like it's the first time Air Canada is in trouble.
And as can be seen by the various comments here & on the blogs, English Canadians totally ignore that and judge this immediatly as a frivolous lawsuit.  Yet, some Quebec anglophone suing the government because he doesn't have english only signs on his street is not.  Weird country.

Two points here.   First, what about this behavior was rude?  Is not understanding a Language now rude?  Is not employing perfectly bilingual staff on all flights now rude?

What you are totally ignoring is that the claim for 500,000 is what makes this claim frivolous not that fact that someone was claiming he was not served in French.

[Malthus]

You should travel more often through the small towns of Quebec.

I am sure I have heard on more than one occasion of communities that speak only French.  Perhaps this is changing and that may be the source of Grallon's particular anger.

Ah, there's two things.
The language people use in their daily lives: 99% French.  Speak French at work, watch french tv, listen to french radio, listen english music.
But if necessary, in restaurants and other "tourists" places, there will be bilingual staff.  I've never seen an english speaker having trouble ordering at a restaurant, and they even have bilingual or english menus on demand at most restaurants of decent size around here.   Yet, it's very french.  People don't read english newspapers, don't watch american or canadian tv shows unless they're dubbed, they don't read english books, etc, etc.

But they can still use english to give appropriate service to english speakers travelling through the town.

Montreal is a different matter.  In Montreal, you have to fight to get a French menu or have the waitress speak French to you.  In many stores, the staff will not speak french, only english to the clients.

I was remarquably surprised at Ottawa on my last trip.  Once I explained to the waitress I would need a few minutes to translate for my friends, she sent someone else with french menu to take our orders.  Didn't have to ask.

The Keg may not be the finest of what Ottawa has to offer in terms of restaurants, but I'll sure eat there again the next time I got.
Cathering to your customer's needs is a way to survive as a business.  Having a government regulated monopoly is another.
Being a monopoly doesn't exclude rude behavior.  It's not like it's the first time Air Canada is in trouble.

And as can be seen by the various comments here & on the blogs, English Canadians totally ignore that and judge this immediatly as a frivolous lawsuit.  Yet, some Quebec anglophone suing the government because he doesn't have english only signs on his street is not.  Weird country.

The point about the Quebec language laws is that it is usually the government prosecuting the individual for violating them - not the other way around.

The problem people have with this guy's lawsuit is that he hasn't suffered any damages, yet he's asking for a cool half-mil.