Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

[crazy canuck]

Did he ever get his 7-up?

12,000 buys a lot of 7up.

[Maximus]

Yes but it still didn't speak french.

[Oexmelin]

I think you are ignoring that no airline could expend the kind of resources Grallon would require in order to give full voice to the "myth".  Some degree of reasonableness is required which is the polar opposite of what happened in this case.

Again, if it was an isolated incident, I would understand, but again, this is Air Canada. It's been years that they have been targeted by the Commissioner: "Institutions such as Air Canada and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have shown little or no resolve to address language-of-work issues that have persisted for years". I have had the same experience much more than once. So, quite frankly, I will not shed tears over Air Canada.

And, again, you must understand that for one Michel Thibodeau, there are thousands of Quebeckers who say nothing, because they know it will take time and effort. I know the ROC media delights in stories such as these - precisely because they fit the "Quebecois are whiny bitches" trope - but the dynamics of language use in Canada are resignation. No one wants to wait 1 hour more for the Border agent who speaks French to show up.

Air Canada is a good whipping boy because it has the most routes in Canada.  What would Grallon want instead - no airline flying Quebec routes?  That would be the alternative.

My guess is Grallon wants exactly what he wrote: the end of the pretenses of bilingualism.

It is always good to claim its not about the money  - the best evidence is did he keep that money or donate it to charity.  My guess is he kept it but I stand to be corrected.

I think this is a fallacy. One might be both politically motivated and tempted to keep the money. Just like Warren Buffet equivalents might wish for political measures to raise taxes without volunteering to pay more to the government.

[dps]

Did he ever get his 7-up?

That's what the court should have awarded him--a 7-UP.  At most.

[crazy canuck]

I know the ROC media delights in stories such as these - precisely because they fit the "Quebecois are whiny bitches" trope

Which may be exactly why this guy claimed 500,000.  He knew it would be greeted with outrage - richly deserved I might add.

My guess is Grallon wants exactly what he wrote: the end of the pretenses of bilingualism.

I know that Grallon believes that he can achieve a poltical objective by doing away with a policy which amounts a kind of reasonable accomodation.  My point is the reasonable accomodation itself has value which is probably why Grallon wants to do away with it.

I think this is a fallacy. One might be both politically motivated and tempted to keep the money. Just like Warren Buffet equivalents might wish for political measures to raise taxes without volunteering to pay more to the government

At least in Buffets case he is honest enough to admit it is about the money.  I have never met a person who claimed a case wasnt about the money who didnt keep the money for themselves.

[Grallon]

I think you are ignoring that no airline could expend the kind of resources Grallon would require in order to give full voice to the "myth".  Some degree of reasonableness is required which is the polar opposite of what happened in this case.

Air Canada is a good whipping boy because it has the most routes in Canada.  What would Grallon want instead - no airline flying Quebec routes?  That would be the alternative.

The most obvious solution is precisely to stop pretending to be a bilingual country - which we all know Canada isn't - and drop it altogether.  But as I said, the emperor would suddenly be naked, and many of you still aren't willing to admit to these realities.




G.

[Oexmelin]

At least in Buffets case he is honest enough to admit it is about the money.  I have never met a person who claimed a case wasnt about the money who didnt keep the money for themselves.

And so, when people are awarded money as compensation for all sorts of injustice, you would contend their primary motivation is always money?

[Razgovory]

Did he ever get his 7-up?

That's what the court should have awarded him--a 7-UP.  At most.

Oh Hell, I'm feeling generous.  Give him a whole six pack.

[Razgovory]

I think you are ignoring that no airline could expend the kind of resources Grallon would require in order to give full voice to the "myth".  Some degree of reasonableness is required which is the polar opposite of what happened in this case.

Air Canada is a good whipping boy because it has the most routes in Canada.  What would Grallon want instead - no airline flying Quebec routes?  That would be the alternative.

The most obvious solution is precisely to stop pretending to be a bilingual country - which we all know Canada isn't - and drop it altogether.  But as I said, the emperor would suddenly be naked, and many of you still aren't willing to admit to these realities.




G.

Presumably this would pave the way for Quebec becoming an independent country?  Or do you have some other idea in mind?

[crazy canuck]

At least in Buffets case he is honest enough to admit it is about the money.  I have never met a person who claimed a case wasnt about the money who didnt keep the money for themselves.

And so, when people are awarded money as compensation for all sorts of injustice, you would contend their primary motivation is always money?

Yes.  When you speak of compensation you speak of making someone whole because of actual damage done to them.  So, yes, of course it is about the money.

[crazy canuck]

The most obvious solution is precisely to stop pretending to be a bilingual country - which we all know Canada isn't - and drop it altogether.  But as I said, the emperor would suddenly be naked, and many of you still aren't willing to admit to these realities.

I am quite certain nobody pretends this is a bilingual country except for people who wish to create a strawman to further their own political objectives...

I am quite certain that if you walk into a Post Office in Quesnel BC you will most likely not be able to be served in French except in the most rudimentary way.  I am also certain that if I walked into a Post Office in small town Quebec where 0% English was spoken I would be hard pressed to recieve service in English except in the most rudimentary manner.

Reasonable people accept that fact.  Resources should be spent ensuring language appropriate service in circumstances where it matters most.  Again I understand that this kind of reasonable approach does not fit well with your political ambititions.  But I say that says more about your poltical ambitions then anything else.

[Oexmelin]

I am quite certain that if you walk into a Post Office in Quesnel BC you will most likely not be able to be served in French except in the most rudimentary way.   

You do know that Thibodeau's flight was between Montreal and Ottawa?

[viper37]

They strike me as sort of people who are in a perpetual state of outrage.

You should read Canadian newspapers to get things into perspective.

Well I might be projecting a bit there.  We have many segments in the US that, politically anyway, are always outraged.

One recent example is the man who sued Air Canada for being, repeatdly, denied french service on board the aircrafts of the company (they have a monopoly on interior flight so long as they provide bilingual services).  he won.  But the amount of vitriol and call for deportation of the Québécois back to France was... Beyhond measure.  Not only from comments allowed to be published on newspapers sites&blogs, but also from editorials.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/07/15/a-12000-7up-mon-dieu
comment's section...
comment's again
A blogger's view on this

They are the cry babies.  They're all "multi-culti" when it suits them, but when it comes to respecting french-speaking citizens, there's just as much respect as there was in 1840 with the Act of Union.

Fully bilingual dude asked for $525,000 for failure to obtain a 7-Up in French. On a flight, mark you, to that hotbed of the French Language - the US.

I would have thought that this would strike any reasonable person as an absurd working of the system.

What you're saying is that Canadian corporations should not respect the laws of the country.
Mind you, he wasn't asking 525 000$ for one 7-up, but for multiple infractions over multiple flights.  Air Canada always promised to correct the situation, they never did.  Wich is why he asked for 525 000$.

I'm inclined to let Air Canada forget about compliance to the Official languages act.  But I want the end of their monopoly over interior flights.  I don't expect bilingual flight attendants with US Airways, so if I can't have it on Air Canada, then by all means, invite the Americans, the Quatari and the Russians to compete with them.  Strangely, it's not something that Canadians want.

A French spealing citizen has the right to be served in French all accross the country.  Not be expelled from a flight for asking for it.

[Oexmelin]

Yes.  When you speak of compensation you speak of making someone whole because of actual damage done to them.  So, yes, of course it is about the money.

Ok. You are stretching it quite a lot farther than I. In our societies, where the principle of monetary compensation has been applied to a whole range of behaviours, I do not necessarily see every desire for justice to be "about the money".

[viper37]

I am quite certain that if you walk into a Post Office in Quesnel BC you will most likely not be able to be served in French except in the most rudimentary way.  I am also certain that if I walked into a Post Office in small town Quebec where 0% English was spoken I would be hard pressed to recieve service in English except in the most rudimentary manner.

Wrong.  The staff has to be bilingual, those who serve the clients I mean.  They do speak english here, in a 4500 inhabitants city.
Subway and McDonald's staff are also fully bilingual.  The accent may be thick, but the customer is able to understand perfectly.

Small, privately owned restaurants (the kind where the owner of the restaurant is the one serving you) may not always have bilingual staff though, but we're not asking that much ourself...

You should travel more often through the small towns of Quebec.