Canada to firmly re-assess its status as a British colony

Started by viper37, August 15, 2011, 08:08:42 PM

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Viking

#120
August 17, 2011, 02:35:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 17, 2011, 02:30:34 PM
I'm starting to think we should give people from Quebec something real to complain about - make Celine Dion honorary queen of Quebec.  :D

CD as GG?

hmmm....
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Barrister

#121
August 17, 2011, 02:36:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:33:33 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 17, 2011, 02:29:05 PM
We pay for their visits (which we'd do anyways, same as the US pays for their visits to the US), then we give a bunch of people some honourary titles that don't cost us anything.  Sounds real expensive! :lol:
If Obama's daughter decided to visit us with her boyfriend, we wouldn't pay for her expense.  Nor are we required to maintain permanent staff at their disposal, or at Obama's disposal.  Nor do we pay for a visit by Obama's brother/sister/cousin.  And if he was old enough to have grand child, I don't see ourselves paying for their trip.

Sorry, better luck next time my royalist friend  :alberta:

We're not obligated to pay for Will and Kate's visit either.  Instead we offered - because it is a huge tourist draw.  It's a win-win for us to have Royals visit the country.  And they don't visit unless they're invited anyways.

And those positions you named are honourary positions - aka we don't pay anything for them.

:showoff:
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

#122
August 17, 2011, 02:38:11 PM Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 02:43:18 PM by Valmy
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:33:33 PM
If Obama's daughter decided to visit us with her boyfriend, we wouldn't pay for her expense.  Nor are we required to maintain permanent staff at their disposal, or at Obama's disposal.  Nor do we pay for a visit by Obama's brother/sister/cousin.  And if he was old enough to have grand child, I don't see ourselves paying for their trip.

Sorry, better luck next time my royalist friend  :alberta:

Um Obama is not your head of state.  He is ours.  And guess what?  We pay money for secret service protection and so for for his family and we will continue to do so for the rest of his life and pay for him to attend government functions after he is President and have done so for all past Presidents for awhile now.  I bet that costs more than having some Prince stop by once a generation.  Ex-Presidents and their families are American Royals.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

viper37

#123
August 17, 2011, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2011, 02:32:52 PM
G. W. Bush would be a great head of state with no power.  He is a natural upper class Texan who loves golf and shaking hands and giving tearful speaches all that.  What he sucked at was, you know, actually governing which is why he was a fine Texas Governor but a shitty President.  The Queen of Canada is not comparable to the President of the United States.  Your actual leader is the Prime Minister.  The Queen is as relevent to the governance of Canada as the Bald Eagle is to the governance of the US.
True, the head of state position are totally different.  One is mostly symbolic, the other hold real power.  But Bush could easily made diplomatic blunder.  Or he could generate hostility from foreign countries, for various reason.  Or he could go borderline senile and you'd still be stuck with him receiving foreign dignataries.

We should just vote for the PM directly and have him as head of state&government.  With some minor adjustments, it could work.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Valmy

#124
August 17, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:38:20 PM
We should just vote for the PM directly and have him as head of state&government.  With some minor adjustments, it could work.

It could easily work.  The first step to getting 'Royal' taken out of the Canadian lexicon is to stop being a monarchy :P
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Viking

#125
August 17, 2011, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:38:20 PM
We should just vote for the PM directly and have him as head of state&government.  With some minor adjustments, it could work.

It could easily work.  The first step to getting 'Royal' taken out of the Canadian lexicon is to stop being a monarchy :P

I agree. I support a Republic of Canada.

More importantly I support Canada in whatever choice they make and hope the get the best out the system they do choose.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Barrister

#126
August 17, 2011, 02:42:36 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2011, 02:32:52 PM
G. W. Bush would be a great head of state with no power.  He is a natural upper class Texan who loves golf and shaking hands and giving tearful speaches all that.  What he sucked at was, you know, actually governing which is why he was a fine Texas Governor but a shitty President.  The Queen of Canada is not comparable to the President of the United States.  Your actual leader is the Prime Minister.  The Queen is as relevent to the governance of Canada as the Bald Eagle is to the governance of the US.
True, the head of state position are totally different.  One is mostly symbolic, the other hold real power.  But Bush could easily made diplomatic blunder.  Or he could generate hostility from foreign countries, for various reason.  Or he could go borderline senile and you'd still be stuck with him receiving foreign dignataries.

We should just vote for the PM directly and have him as head of state&government.  With some minor adjustments, it could work.

No - we'd still need someone in the position as head of state.  Remember it was only a few years ago when the GG was actually in an important position regarding whether or not to prorogue Parliament.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

viper37

#127
August 17, 2011, 02:47:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2011, 02:38:11 PM
Um Obama is not your head of state.  He is ours.  And guess what?  We pay money for secret service protection and so for for his family and we will continue to do so for the rest of his life and pay for him to attend government functions after he is President and have done so for all past Presidents for awhile now.  I bet that costs less than having some Prince stop by once a generation.
As I said, Obama is elected.  The Queen is not.  I don't get to decide if Charles is fit enough to rule as my head of state, no matter if the officiale functions are relatively small.  It's been determined before I was born that he would be the one to take the throne once his mother dies.  And after him will be William.

Why?  Because someone somewhere decided he had an impressive resume?  Because after multiple interviews, the Prime Minister of Canada and the cabinet decided he was ok enough to fill the role of head of state?  Because we voted for him thinking he was the best?

Nope.  Because he was first male born of a family living in a foreign country.

This is, in essence, what it is to be a colony.  You don't decide who rules you.  You might get a good ruler, you might not.  But you don't decide.  and nobody you voted for will decide on your behalf who is best fit for the job, it's all pre-determined by birth.

If it was a Canadian monarch, I could, maybe, live with it.  It would be a political system like any other.  It would be like adopting the Euro or the US dollar as a currency.  You stop having choice, but at least you make that choice once.

But a foreign ruler?  Nah.  It's stinks of colonial times and we should do everything to look at the future, not the past.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Valmy

#128
August 17, 2011, 02:49:23 PM Last Edit: August 17, 2011, 02:50:59 PM by Valmy
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:47:36 PM
As I said, Obama is elected.  The Queen is not.

His wife and kids weren't.  Which was my point.

And as I said I do not really care about whether symbolic offices, like the Queen, are elected.  I mean what would be the campaign or qualifications for figure head?  Would you promise to look better on the currency?

But you, and I expect most Quebeckers, find the symbol itself to be offensive and that is why you want a republic would be my guess.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Richard Hakluyt

#129
August 17, 2011, 02:51:32 PM
My advice is to come up with a positive alternative that the Canadian people are likely to support in a referendum. It's easy to slag off the constitutional monarchy, it is indeed rather peculiar, but you need to come up with a superior alternative instead of just grumbling.

viper37

#130
August 17, 2011, 02:53:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 17, 2011, 02:42:36 PM
No - we'd still need someone in the position as head of state.  Remember it was only a few years ago when the GG was actually in an important position regarding whether or not to prorogue Parliament.
The GG really had no power.  Had the Prime Minister felt she wouldn't side with him, he would have replaced her immediatly with someone more inclined to his views, then he would have asked to prorogue the Parliament.
The GG would have had to agree or make a stand and create chaos.  She would have folded.

Really, the Governor does not hold any kind of power.  It can't even govern by decree in the case of a disbanded government, unlike the cabinet.
It could, theoritically, refuse to sign a bill.
In practice, the Cabinet would remove the Governor General and replace it with someone else.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

#131
August 17, 2011, 02:55:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2011, 02:49:23 PM
His wife and kids weren't.  Which was my point.

And as I said I do not really care about whether symbolic offices, like the Queen, are elected.  I mean what would be the campaign or qualifications for figure head?  Would you promise to look better on the currency?
What are the qualifications required of the German President?

Quote
But you, and I expect most Quebeckers, find the symbol itself to be offensive and that is why you want a republic would be my guess.
True enough, but it's only part of the reasons even if it's a big one.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

#132
August 17, 2011, 02:56:51 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on August 17, 2011, 02:51:32 PM
My advice is to come up with a positive alternative that the Canadian people are likely to support in a referendum. It's easy to slag off the constitutional monarchy, it is indeed rather peculiar, but you need to come up with a superior alternative instead of just grumbling.

look at how populare this new initiative is in English Canada, and you'll get your answer why it's not done.
Canadians are attached to their old British tradition, something like the fear of becoming American if they don't have a King or Queen.

Even the Australian couldn't manage to get rid of the Commonwealth when they tried.  We'll let them to the trial&errors phase, then we'll copy what they did right :P
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Valmy

#133
August 17, 2011, 02:57:52 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:55:04 PM
What are the qualifications required of the German President?

The German President is almost completely identical to your Governor General so why don't you tell me?  Why are the requirements for being Governor General?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

HVC

#134
August 17, 2011, 03:19:12 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2011, 02:40:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 17, 2011, 02:38:20 PM
We should just vote for the PM directly and have him as head of state&government.  With some minor adjustments, it could work.

It could easily work.  The first step to getting 'Royal' taken out of the Canadian lexicon is to stop being a monarchy :P
but that adds a new layer of costs in addition to the head of state costs. so really, we're getting off cheap with just a queen of canada :D
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.
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