Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[Slargos]

All in all, you seem to aggressively disagree. Any reason? Do you find his views  sympathetic?

Are you a communist?

[Bluebook]

Indeed. Which I think has been quite uniformly decried as an act of shortsighted cowardice.

Oh, really? On various internet forums by random anonomys people perhaps, but hardly anywhere else. And defintively not in the official world.

Most of responsible countries (Italy is not one, btw) do not pay ransom to kidnappers or at least have a policy of not paying to kidnappers (whether they do so under the table or not is another matter). Such policy is quite uniformly held by the reasonable people to be sound and preferable to the alternative.

Look at all the pirates in Somalia. They are getting ransoms practically all the time. "Never negotiate with terrorists" might sound like a catchy bumper-sticker slogan, but it is far far from the realities of this world. And if you were ever the victim of kidnapping, I rather think you would wish for negotiations, rather than some boneheaded principled absurdity ala Reagan.

I am not talking about his trial, I am talking about the media publishing excerpts from his manifesto, or quoting him, plastering the entire public sphere with the pictures of his smug face etc.

All in all, you seem to aggressively disagree. Any reason? Do you find his views  sympathetic?

The logic of modern media is to publish stuff like that. Although I dont think any media has published his entire manifesto. He made sure to make the manifesto accessible, and that stuff has gone viral thanks to various internet forums. I dont think media could or should be blamed for that.

Do I find his views sympathetic? Dont be absurd, take your trolling elsewhere. Just because I "agressively disagree" with your idiotic ideas does not mean I am sympathetic to his idiotic ideas.

[The Brain]

MSM's refusal to suppress ABB's views will force Mart to take lethal action. It's beyond his control.

[Norgy]

All in all, you seem to aggressively disagree. Any reason? Do you find his views  sympathetic?

For the record, after 9/11, most of us spent an outrageous amount of time trying to find out what the hell Al-Qaeda and bin-Laden were for and against, and new, interesting phrases like "islamofascism" came out of it. Some of us tried to find explanations in models used to explain other types of behaviour, like economic marginalisation. It did help us increase our understanding of how Islamic extremism has come into existence. Most of us, at least I, had no idea who Sayeed Qutb was before 9/11. We knew very little about the politics of the Mujahedin. From this came an understanding that not all Moslems were jihadists. And I would strongly suggest we extend the same courtesy to immigration sceptics as well, maybe even the counterjihadists. Sharing some common ground with the terrorist does not make you a terrorist. It may, on the other hand, make you a moron. The least we can do is not to fall into the same trap as the counterjihadist community and start imagining "an enemy within" ourselves. These invisible enemies have a way of manifesting themselves that makes societies collectively do rather terrible things, be it murdering Kulaks, Jews or your Serb or Bosniak neighbour.

The biggest punishment that Behring Breivik could suffer would be to be completely deleted and erased from all collective recollection and condemned to isolation for the remainder of his time. That will not happen. Mostly because that would be the complete opposite of what the rule of law and open society are.
It's easy to say, and probably mean, that we do not fight terrorism by becoming like them. I think actively acting in a different way is a better idea.

[Viking]

hmm... yes, Nome and Fugeli going all "all FrP are teh Facist" did give me a bit of a stuff is back to normal vibe.

I know I bitch alot about Norwegian collectivism, but in this case there is a strong feeling (apart from hacks like Nome and his ilk) that there is some need to understand before acting. I agree with the idea that a society that produces men like ABB needs to look at what created him.

I know Nome and Bush - 43 have been at ideological war for a decade now. Bush went on TV the day after 9/11 calling Islam a religion of peace (in a mosque of all places) and accusing Al-Qaeda of perverting that religion. Nome wrote in a newspaper op-ed two days after 22-7 (reverse dating schme FTC*) accusing FrP of causing the murders.

I score this round for Bush. I suspect Nome will resign from his job working for the Norwegian Association of Brewers (my next job).



*FTC is For The Confusion, keep up beeyotches

[Slargos]

Really didn't take long.

[Martinus]

hmm... yes, Nome and Fugeli going all "all FrP are teh Facist" did give me a bit of a stuff is back to normal vibe.

I know I bitch alot about Norwegian collectivism, but in this case there is a strong feeling (apart from hacks like Nome and his ilk) that there is some need to understand before acting. I agree with the idea that a society that produces men like ABB needs to look at what created him.

I know Nome and Bush - 43 have been at ideological war for a decade now. Bush went on TV the day after 9/11 calling Islam a religion of peace (in a mosque of all places) and accusing Al-Qaeda of perverting that religion. Nome wrote in a newspaper op-ed two days after 22-7 (reverse dating schme FTC*) accusing FrP of causing the murders.

I score this round for Bush. I suspect Nome will resign from his job working for the Norwegian Association of Brewers (my next job).



*FTC is For The Confusion, keep up beeyotches

Who is Nome?

[The Brain]

hmm... yes, Nome and Fugeli going all "all FrP are teh Facist" did give me a bit of a stuff is back to normal vibe.

I know I bitch alot about Norwegian collectivism, but in this case there is a strong feeling (apart from hacks like Nome and his ilk) that there is some need to understand before acting. I agree with the idea that a society that produces men like ABB needs to look at what created him.

I know Nome and Bush - 43 have been at ideological war for a decade now. Bush went on TV the day after 9/11 calling Islam a religion of peace (in a mosque of all places) and accusing Al-Qaeda of perverting that religion. Nome wrote in a newspaper op-ed two days after 22-7 (reverse dating schme FTC*) accusing FrP of causing the murders.

I score this round for Bush. I suspect Nome will resign from his job working for the Norwegian Association of Brewers (my next job).



*FTC is For The Confusion, keep up beeyotches

Who is Nome?

katmai's neighbor.

[Viking]

Nome is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petter_Nome

he among other things compared Bush to Hitler and is the far left multiculturalist that ABB hates.

Nome wrote

http://www.nyemeninger.no/alle_meninger/cat1003/subcat1040/thread162876/#post_162876

[Norgy]

Gates of Vienna is blaming Dexter.

The appalling killing in Norway, and its purported justification via a 1500 page "compendium" by the mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik under the pseudonym "Andrew Berwick," has let loose a remarkably well-coordinated campaign against any intellectuals who have opposed Islamisation or jihadists in Europe, a campaign pursued with meticulous precision by the New York Times, the leftwing blogs and the European press, executed against political leaders (Wilders, Merkel, Cameron, Sarkozy et al), against authors of books and opeds and essays, against human rights activists, anyone who has written or acted against violent jihad or the imposition of the violent doctrines of Shariah in western nations.

Yes, I have also found the European press' attacks on Merkel, Cameron and Sarkozy distasteful. Wait. 

"Andrew Berwick" didn't just watch Dexter, he found it "hilarious." He wrote: "I am currently watching Dexter, the series about that forensic mass murderer. Quite hilarious. I'm also looking forward to watch the new movie-series about Carlos the Jackal (the Marxist-Islamist and Che wannabe scumbag)." He mentioned Dexter a second time in a list of other television programs he likes, a fanboy mixing explosives chatting about his viewing habits.

That's some excellent analysis there, Lou. 
Never change, gov.

[Martinus]

Nome is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petter_Nome

he among other things compared Bush to Hitler and is the far left multiculturalist that ABB hates.

Nome wrote

http://www.nyemeninger.no/alle_meninger/cat1003/subcat1040/thread162876/#post_162876

Uhm, so he is a pundit? Why the fuck are you comparing him to Bush then (who, after all, was a leader of a nation and had advisers to tell him what he should and shouldn't say)? It's comparing apples to oranges. Compare him to Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter (liberals are traitors, we should invade and kill all muslim leaders and force-convert the rest to Christianity) and then see who says more insane things.

[Viking]

Uhm, so he is a pundit? Why the fuck are you comparing him to Bush then (who, after all, is a leader of a nation and has advisers to tell him what he should and shouldn't say)? It's comparing apples to oranges. Compare him to Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter (liberals are traitors, we should invade and kill all muslim leaders and force-convert the rest to Christianity) and then see who says more insane things.

Calling him a pundit is overly generous. He is a non-party political activist. He is just so strongly associated with anti-Bushism that comparing the two fits. Especially since one of Nome's criticisms of Bush is that he is waging a war on muslims with 9/11 as an excuse.

I believe the point I was making is that he is behaving like Beck and Coulter rather than Bush or Stoltenberg.

[Martinus]

Uhm, so he is a pundit? Why the fuck are you comparing him to Bush then (who, after all, is a leader of a nation and has advisers to tell him what he should and shouldn't say)? It's comparing apples to oranges. Compare him to Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter (liberals are traitors, we should invade and kill all muslim leaders and force-convert the rest to Christianity) and then see who says more insane things.

Calling him a pundit is overly generous. He is a non-party political activist. He is just so strongly associated with anti-Bushism that comparing the two fits. Especially since one of Nome's criticisms of Bush is that he is waging a war on muslims with 9/11 as an excuse.

I believe the point I was making is that he is behaving like Beck and Coulter rather than Bush or Stoltenberg.

I disagree. Expecting the same standard from an elected politician and a journalist activist is simply silly. You could just as well say that Nome is much better than Bush, because Nome never ordered anyone to drop any bombs and started no wars. 

[Tamas]

Uhm, so he is a pundit? Why the fuck are you comparing him to Bush then (who, after all, is a leader of a nation and has advisers to tell him what he should and shouldn't say)? It's comparing apples to oranges. Compare him to Glenn Beck or Ann Coulter (liberals are traitors, we should invade and kill all muslim leaders and force-convert the rest to Christianity) and then see who says more insane things.

Calling him a pundit is overly generous. He is a non-party political activist. He is just so strongly associated with anti-Bushism that comparing the two fits. Especially since one of Nome's criticisms of Bush is that he is waging a war on muslims with 9/11 as an excuse.

I believe the point I was making is that he is behaving like Beck and Coulter rather than Bush or Stoltenberg.

I disagree. Expecting the same standard from an elected politician and a journalist activist is simply silly. You could just as well say that Nome is much better than Bush, because Nome never ordered anyone to drop any bombs and started no wars. 

As  I see, Viking is only expecting the guy to act according to the behavior and values he poses to represent and demands on politicans. Is that really that outrageous?

[Viking]

I disagree. Expecting the same standard from an elected politician and a journalist activist is simply silly. You could just as well say that Nome is much better than Bush, because Nome never ordered anyone to drop any bombs and started no wars. 

I'm comparing Nome's blaming of an entire political class for the attack to Bush's rather silly declaration that Islam is a religion of peace. Those are the apples I'm comparing.