Breaking News - Major Terrorist Attack In Oslo, Norway

[garbon]

What the moral high-ground crowd seem to fail to understand (or more probably willfully ignore for the sake of posturing) is that there is the man's latent sociopathic/murderous impulses on one hand - and then there are the 'concerns' that (allegedly) motivated his actions on the other.  Two different things altogether.  The fact that both were conjoined in Friday's killing spree should not infringe on the potential validity of said concerns.

Certainly, by the same token, this man's actions should not cause individuals to commence a discussion about the potential validity of said concerns. His actions are irrelevant.

[The Minsky Moment]

The above is a textbook example of what is generally termed as 'loading the question' - nice work Counsel. 

Fair accusation, but the motivation here is to draw out more specifics.  And your response retreats back into more vague generalities about "concerns"

You say I have strawmanned you, fair enough.  Then explain how and exactly what you mean.

[Razgovory]

The "concerns" behind the "gesture" can stand or fall on their own merits. The actions of a psychopath have no relevance. He did not murder 100 people because of those "concerns", but because he is a psychopath.

I haven't seen a medical diagnosis that characterized him as a "Psychopath".  I doubt I will, as the term is rarely used in medical context anymore.  Even if we used the old terms, I'm skeptical that it is actually caused by Psychopathy.

[Grallon]

...

You say I have strawmanned you, fair enough.  Then explain how and exactly what you mean.

How?  By positing that I'm referring specifically to Muslims, considering my long stance about that specific ethno-cultural group. 

Muslims are merely the proverbial 'tip of the iceberg' - because they're so often... visible themselves.  What the man expressed in his recent actions (and his 'cut&pasting' writings before) is the distillation of a diffuse sentiment amongst large segments of western populations.  A sentiment feeding off feelings of insecurity and alienation, both exacerbated by the twins of mass immigration and globalization.

You may chose to ignore, or worse, dismiss - at your own peril.




G.

[Ideologue]

And I was not talking about the man's mental health.  As I and others have said before - eschewing the larger picture on the sole grounds that his recent actions are horrific is setting the table for more of the same.

By larger picture, do you mean Muslim immigration?
And is the claim thus that not taking action to restrict Muslim immigration will inevitably lead to similar violence because the inherent quality of Muslim immigration is such that shooting Social Democratic youth auxiliaries logically follows?

And on the flipside when there is an islamic terrorist attack, perhaps we should reconsider our views about western ideals.

It's never been a particularly popular idea, but I've never understood the animosity toward it.  Shouldn't we be reconsidering our ideals, like, constantly?

[jimmy olsen]

I tend to agree that the guy's actual politics are immaterial. Although he seemingly stands for a lot of stuff I loathe, and the temptation to rub in guilt by association is high (hello, Slargos!  ), it ought to be resisted - he's a killer, he seemingly enjoys the attention that killing gave him, he could have been killing for any one of a number of different ideologies.

Dismissing the importance of ABB's politics with "he's a killer" seems dangerous to me. All active terrorists of note are killers. To fight terrorism we must understand the terrorists, including the ideologies that build them. You need a lot of general sympathizers, passive supporters and active supporters for an actual terrorist to emerge.

The article I posted earlier suggested the opposite, that it's the lack of general sympathizers to moderate their actions that cause the wingnuts to actually engage in violence. You disagree?

[DGuller]

We should use this tragedy as an opportunity to discuss what's wrong with Islam, or else all those people have died in vain.

[Neil]

Say what you will about the Norwads, but they know how to throw a parade. More than a third of the population of Oslo turned out yesterday.

Don't these people have jobs?

[Grallon]

Don't these people have jobs?

Attention!  You'll soon be reprimanded by the 'Callous' Police.



G.

[DGuller]

Say what you will about the Norwads, but they know how to throw a parade. More than a third of the population of Oslo turned out yesterday.

Don't these people have jobs?

Why would they?  Oslo is in Europe.

[jimmy olsen]

Is it possible to ascribe genes to a country?

Only if you take an arbitrary starting point for tracking them, as I am.

Which is necessary; if you don't choose a starting point, we're all Congolese, or if you want to be really hard, we're from a tidewater somewhere lost to time.

Out of Africa: Complete Replacement has been disproved!

Paleoanthropoly hijack!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP2_fGKHExk

Okay, I watched your video, which was long, but that's fine, and it doesn't contradict anything I said.  Neanderthals came from Africa as well.

Going back before the emergence of H. sapiens is too far.
I will note however that fossil hominins have never been found in the Congo basin.

[Neil]

Don't these people have jobs?

Attention!  You'll soon be reprimanded by the 'Callous' Police.

I rather doubt it.

[Ideologue]

Is it possible to ascribe genes to a country?

Only if you take an arbitrary starting point for tracking them, as I am.

Which is necessary; if you don't choose a starting point, we're all Congolese, or if you want to be really hard, we're from a tidewater somewhere lost to time.

Out of Africa: Complete Replacement has been disproved!

Paleoanthropoly hijack!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP2_fGKHExk

Okay, I watched your video, which was long, but that's fine, and it doesn't contradict anything I said.  Neanderthals came from Africa as well.

Going back before the emergence of H. sapiens is too far.

Is is not.

I will note however that fossil hominins have never been found in the Congo basin.

Well, fine, I just said Congo because it was the first place that came to mind (because it's where bonobos live, so thus it should be depopulated of humans and made the Bonobo Free State).

Have they not been found in Africa at all?

[Neil]

Have they not been found in Africa at all?

They're all over the Great Rift.

[jimmy olsen]

Is it possible to ascribe genes to a country?

Only if you take an arbitrary starting point for tracking them, as I am.

Which is necessary; if you don't choose a starting point, we're all Congolese, or if you want to be really hard, we're from a tidewater somewhere lost to time.

Out of Africa: Complete Replacement has been disproved!

Paleoanthropoly hijack!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP2_fGKHExk

Okay, I watched your video, which was long, but that's fine, and it doesn't contradict anything I said.  Neanderthals came from Africa as well.

Going back before the emergence of H. sapiens is too far.

Is is not.

I will note however that fossil hominins have never been found in the Congo basin.

Have they not been found in Africa at all?

Paleoanthropology fail.

Australopithicines ranged from South Africa to Ethiopa, and from their to shores of the once great Lake Chad.

Read "The First Human" or "Lucy's Legacy: The Quest for Human Origins" for a basic overview.