Should Gabrielle Giffords resign her Congressional seat?

Started by Caliga, June 09, 2011, 02:31:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Should Gabrielle Giffords resign her Congressional seat?

Yes
14 (51.9%)
No
10 (37%)
Other (?)
3 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Martinus


garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Strix

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left." - Margaret Thatcher

Caliga

Without her faux blond hair and with it cut that way she sort of looks like an Amish woman to me, though typically they have very long hair bound up and hidden under a bonnet.
0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Razgovory

I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

OttoVonBismarck

If she can competently understand the issues and has some means of interacting with the public and other politicians then I do not think she should resign and instead it should be up to the people of Arizona to decide if any limitations in her ability to communicate should factor in to her suitability for office. Most floor debates are showmanship and are only vaguely relevant, a congresswoman unable to speak properly but who still retains the rest of their mental faculties can still do all the agreements and horse trading in the congressional backrooms where the real politics happens.

I would (if I agreed with her politics) probably vote to reelect her if I was from Arizona if she remained mentally competent because even if she was unable to speak publicly she would have powerful "attempted assassination political capital" and could use it to advance an agenda very well. She was a conservative-ish Democrat from what I can tell so I might have voted for her if I lived in her district, but probably not.

It's also important that her constituents know whether her problems are "speech related" or "cognition related." I understand there isn't a super easy, straight forward way to answer that, but I do think a medical assessment can be done generally probably before the deadline in March 2012. If she has been reduced cognitively then it's arguable we couldn't trust any written communications from her because it would seem more likely her staffers were just using her as a flesh puppet (as staffers did with Thurmond and Byrd near the end of their seemingly endless lives.)

I have a bit of personal experience with situations like this. When my grandfather was 81 he had an angiography done; while exceptionally rare an angiography can cause a stroke and that is exactly what happened to my grandfather. However his stroke was actually fairly mild, he lost some speech but his cognition was unaffected. As an example he had a garden and he lost the ability to refer to a cantaloupe as a cantaloupe. But he could still write "cantaloupe", apparently such odd stuff isn't unheard of and the brain is a complex organ. It was very frustrating for him because he retained all of his prior cognitive abilities but lost his ability to form certain words and was unable to conjure up appropriate words from his vocabulary.

It was actually a period in which he got heavily involved in PCs, and was one of the first people in my family to have an email account and actually started writing children's books on early word processing software. Given these activities and many others I can say that aside from his becoming aphasic he was the same guy he was before. However when he was about 92 he had another stroke, this one much more devastating. It did not further degrade his speech but he became deeply confused and forgetful, he essentially was rendered pretty far along the dementia scale by the stroke. He lost the ability to remember things and people, had spotty recollection or recognition of family members and etc.

If Giffords condition is akin to my grandfather after his first stroke I think she'd be able to competently fulfill her duties. If she was like he was after his second stroke then she should resign.

CountDeMoney


viper37

what's the precedent for other Congressman/women sick or injured during their mandate?

I've seen people with cancer, even terminal, still keep their official job, even if they don't show up for the votes at our parliaments.  I've seen one guy in disgrace still a member of his party, still a MP, and still a job even if he hasn't shown up for work (not even at his county office) for 13 months.

If it was Canada, I'd say she sure could stay until it's clear she'll never be able to do her job.  But I'm unclear as to what happens in the US in these usual circumstances.
I don't do meditation.  I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

OttoVonBismarck

Quote from: viper37 on June 12, 2011, 02:40:21 PM
what's the precedent for other Congressman/women sick or injured during their mandate?

I've seen people with cancer, even terminal, still keep their official job, even if they don't show up for the votes at our parliaments.  I've seen one guy in disgrace still a member of his party, still a MP, and still a job even if he hasn't shown up for work (not even at his county office) for 13 months.

If it was Canada, I'd say she sure could stay until it's clear she'll never be able to do her job.  But I'm unclear as to what happens in the US in these usual circumstances.

They can stay as long as they keep getting elected. We have had very old Senators get reelected who are so infirm they haven't been to floor votes in months.

Ideologue

Quote from: Razgovory on June 12, 2011, 02:24:40 PM
I can see why she changed her look.
I was going to say she looked cute, then I realized that the reason she has short hair is because it was shaved for brain surgery.

Still, it works.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110621/ap_en_ot/us_books_giffords

QuoteGabrielle Giffords has deal for a memoir

The world has only begun to learn about Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

The Arizona Democrat and her husband, astronaut and Navy captain Mark Kelly, are working on a memoir that Scribner will publish at a date to be determined. The book, currently untitled, will be an intimate chronicle of everything from their careers and courtship to the Jan. 8 tragedy when a gunman shot Giffords in the head during a political event in Tucson, Ariz. Six people were killed in the attack and 12 others besides the congresswoman were wounded.

"Since Jan. 8, it's been really touching to us to see how much support there is for Gabby and her recovery, and how much interest there is in how she's doing and her story," Kelly, who on Tuesday announced his retirement from the Navy and NASA, told The Associated Press during a recent interview from Texas.

"After thinking about it, and talking about it, we decided it was the right thing to do to put our words and our voices on paper and tell our story from our point of view."

The 47-year-old Kelly most recently was commander of the space shuttle Endeavour's final mission, which ended June 1. His retirement, which comes as NASA ends its space shuttle program, is effective Oct. 1.

Giffords, 41, was released from a Houston hospital last week and is set to start outpatient therapy. She had been in the rehab facility since late January, a few weeks after the shooting, and is now living with Kelly at his home in League City, a town 26 miles south of Houston. She will continue outpatient therapy at TIRR Memorial Hermann, the same hospital where she underwent rehabilitation.

Kelly and Giffords are collaborating with author Jeffrey Zaslow, who worked on Randy Pausch's million-selling "The Last Lecture" and Capt. Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger's "Highest Duty." Kelly praised Zaslow as a "good storyteller" and "the best writer" for the kind of book they wanted. Zaslow will interview friends, family members and colleagues of Kelly and Giffords.

"There are details of our personal lives together that I'd say I can count on one hand the people who know them. In some cases, it's just Gabby and I (who know the details)," said Kelly, who met Giffords in 2003 and married her in 2007. Before the shooting, they had maintained independent lives, Kelly based in Houston and Giffords in Tucson.

Giffords will focus on her recovery, but Kelly said that the book will be part of that process and that Giffords will provide details of what "she remembers after Jan. 8 and her story before that." While Kelly will be "the primary collaborator," he said Giffords will be a "big part of this." Giffords has been struggling to relearn how to speak and walk, and will be assisted by a 24-hour home health provider, according to the hospital.

For the book deal, Kelly and Giffords were represented by Washington attorney Robert Barnett, whose clients include President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton. The memoir will be edited at Scribner by executive vice president and publisher Susan Moldow, and senior vice president and editor-in-chief Nan Graham.

"I really felt a connection with them and I knew Gabby would, too," Kelly said. "Gabby is very pro-women and she always has been. And I knew after meeting Susan and Nan that they were definitely the right people to work with."

Because of rules covering members of the House of Representatives, Giffords will receive no advance and the deal must be cleared by the House ethics committee. A portion of the authors' net proceeds will be donated to charities that benefit Tucson and Arizona.

Not sure I'm a fan...
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

MadImmortalMan

Brain damage is not an issue. Everyone in Congress has that problem. I think she should resign based on the fact that she's not using her husband's last name.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

garbon

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 21, 2011, 11:37:13 AM
I think she should resign based on the fact that she's not using her husband's last name.

:huh:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: garbon on June 21, 2011, 11:46:41 AM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 21, 2011, 11:37:13 AM
I think she should resign based on the fact that she's not using her husband's last name.

:huh:

What? Why should her father's last name supersede her husbands? Was he an astronaut too? Give the guy his props. :P
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers