WTF is wrong with Germany?!

[Viking]

1) Shale gas was is everywhere, in shitloads. The luddites are trying to stop that as well with their attacks on Fracking..

2) The Fukushima Reactor survived the earthquake and the tsunami without any problem. The powerplants problem was, however, that the eartquake took out the local electricity grid and the tsunami took out the powerplants diesel generators. This was the worst case scenario, biggest possible earthquake followed by the biggest possible tsunami. Note, the modern reactors at fukushima have provided no problems, while the 1960s era reactors had the problems.

[Tamas]

1) Shale gas was is everywhere, in shitloads. The luddites are trying to stop that as well with their attacks on Fracking..

2) The Fukushima Reactor survived the earthquake and the tsunami without any problem. The powerplants problem was, however, that the eartquake took out the local electricity grid and the tsunami took out the powerplants diesel generators. This was the worst case scenario, biggest possible earthquake followed by the biggest possible tsunami. Note, the modern reactors at fukushima have provided no problems, while the 1960s era reactors had the problems.

With your second point, I think you overextended the average voter's attention span at "Reactor surviv..."

[Viking]

1) Shale gas was is everywhere, in shitloads. The luddites are trying to stop that as well with their attacks on Fracking..

2) The Fukushima Reactor survived the earthquake and the tsunami without any problem. The powerplants problem was, however, that the eartquake took out the local electricity grid and the tsunami took out the powerplants diesel generators. This was the worst case scenario, biggest possible earthquake followed by the biggest possible tsunami. Note, the modern reactors at fukushima have provided no problems, while the 1960s era reactors had the problems.

With your second point, I think you overextended the average voter's attention span at "Reactor surviv..."

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

I'd normally just say, screw them let them live with the consequences of their actions.. but their actions affect me...

[Martinus]

Fuckin' dark greens and their luddite, self-destroying ignorant attitudes. I can't believe this is happening.

You're aware that the ones pulling the plug are the conservatives and liberals, right? 

yes, but it was fuckin' green propaganda that got them here.

Yeah, yeah, right, propaganda. Any way you want to slice it, the fact is that there's widespread public rejection to nuclear power, enough for it to be damaging for politicians to support it. It's really no wonder that they get to this situation.

A rejection borne of ignorance.

So? Your country is hindering stem cell research out of ignorance too. Every country is full of ignorant fucks. They are called "voters".

[Monoriu]

Are we certain the Germany is doing this out of ignorance?  Is there a possibility that someone has done the math and concluded that the cost of using another energy source, e.g. natural gas, is actually cheaper than nuclear?  Fukushima may have done more than change public perceptions - it may well have increased the costs of installing extra safety precautions in new power plants, making them less economically competitive.  And, how old are Germany's nuclear plants anyway?  These things are designed to operate for a limited number of years, right?  Maybe they need to be decommissioned by 2022 or so anyway? 

[Bluebook]

When was the last time the German landscape was devastated by a level 9 earthquake and a tsunami?

Early 1945

[Tamas]

When was the last time the German landscape was devastated by a level 9 earthquake and a tsunami?

Early 1945

good one


nice to see you again Hort

[Agelastus]

Are we certain the Germany is doing this out of ignorance?  Is there a possibility that someone has done the math and concluded that the cost of using another energy source, e.g. natural gas, is actually cheaper than nuclear?  Fukushima may have done more than change public perceptions - it may well have increased the costs of installing extra safety precautions in new power plants, making them less economically competitive.  And, how old are Germany's nuclear plants anyway?  These things are designed to operate for a limited number of years, right?  Maybe they need to be decommissioned by 2022 or so anyway?

Natural gas is cheaper than nuclear (as Britain's idiotic "Dash for Gas" of a couple of decades ago shows.)

It is also more finite than nuclear considering the long term.

It is also a hell of a lot easier to be cut off from supply than nuclear is.

Western Europe was returning to nuclear due to fears over having to rely on Russia and other external sources of gas as much as greenhouse gas emission requirements; now thanks to an irrational reaction to Fukushima, Germany seems to have forgotten that. And, as another poster has pointed out, it was the older reactors at Fukushima that went which indicates that current safety standards are more than adequate - especially as Germany is NOT in an earthquake zone.

I just hope that Britain doesn't jump off a cliff - there's a lot of muttering over here about "tighter safety standards" and "reviews" as if we were Japan and under threat from massive earthquakes and tsunamis. 

[Grey Fox]

1) Shale gas was is everywhere, in shitloads. The luddites are trying to stop that as well with their attacks on Fracking..

And with good reason.

[jamesww]

It must have been news to the Germans that they were in a major earthquake zone.

Oh, wait a second...THEY'RE NOT...

Fucking retards. I just hope my own government doesn't catch this latest "let's see how stupid we can be" virus.

And you think the UK energy/power generation policy over the last couple of decades has been sensible ? 

Welcome to 1973:

Power Station in England:

Nuclear power stations:

Open
Dungeness B Power Station 1080MW (predicted closure 2018)
Hartlepool Power Station 1210MW (predicted closure 2014)
Heysham Power Station Stage 1 1200MW (predicted closure 2014)
Heysham Power Station Stage 2 1200MW (predicted closure 2023)
Hinkley Point B Power Station 1260MW (predicted closure 2016)
Oldbury Power Station 470MW (predicted closure 2011)
Sizewell B Power Station 1190MW (predicted closure 2035)

Closed
Berkeley Power Station
Bradwell Power Station
Calder Hall Power Station
Dungeness A Power Station
Hinkley Point A Power Station
Sizewell A Power Station
Windscale Advanced Gas Cooled Reactor
Winfrith Steam Generating Heavy Water Reactor

Coal-fired power stations:

Open
Cottam Power Station 2008MW, EDF
Didcot A Power Station 1958MW, RWE, co-fires gas and biofuel (to close by end 2015)
Drax power station 3870MW, Drax Group, co-fires biofuel
Eggborough Power Station 1960MW, Eggborough Power Limited
Ferrybridge Power Station 1995MW, SSE, co-fires biofuel (units 1 and 2 to close by end 2015)
Fiddlers Ferry Power Station 1961MW, SSE, co-fires biofuel
Ironbridge Power Station (or Buildwas Power Station) 970MW, E.On (to close by end 2015)
Kingsnorth power station 1940MW, E.On, co-fires oil (A station to close by end 2015)
Lynemouth Power Station 420MW, Alcan, co-fires biofuel
Ratcliffe-on-Soar Power Station 2000MW, E.On
Rugeley Power Station 1006MW, IP
Tilbury Power Station 1038MW, RWE, co-fires oil (to close by end 2015)
West Burton Power Station 1972MW, EDF
Wilton Power Station 197MW, SembCorp Industries

Oil-fired power stations:

Open
Fawley Power Station 968MW, RWE (to close by end 2015)
Grain Power Station 1300MW, E.On (to close by end 2015)
Littlebrook D Power Station 2055MW, RWE (to close by end 2015)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_England

[Zanza2]

Are we certain the Germany is doing this out of ignorance?  Is there a possibility that someone has done the math and concluded that the cost of using another energy source, e.g. natural gas, is actually cheaper than nuclear?  Fukushima may have done more than change public perceptions - it may well have increased the costs of installing extra safety precautions in new power plants, making them less economically competitive.  And, how old are Germany's nuclear plants anyway?  These things are designed to operate for a limited number of years, right?  Maybe they need to be decommissioned by 2022 or so anyway?

It's really hard to come up with a valid comparison. Coal and gas have externalities from pollution, nuclear has externalities from waste disposal and the fact that the state insures the risk because no insurance company would take that business.
The last nuclear powerplants  were built in the 1980s and their lifecycle would allow them to operate until the 2030s or so.

[Zanza2]

2) The Fukushima Reactor survived the earthquake and the tsunami without any problem. The powerplants problem was, however, that the eartquake took out the local electricity grid and the tsunami took out the powerplants diesel generators. This was the worst case scenario, biggest possible earthquake followed by the biggest possible tsunami. Note, the modern reactors at fukushima have provided no problems, while the 1960s era reactors had the problems.

So? The result is still that there is a considerable area around the reactor that is possibly uninhabitable for decades. I bet that we will all witness another of those once in a million years nuclear disasters in our lifetime.

[Zanza2]

By the way, at the moment just 4 out of 17 remaining nuclear reactors are online in Germany. And we still don't have blackouts or anything. Mainly because Germany used to be a big electricity exporter before the nuclear moratorium and can now fulfill its demand by importing a small amount of electricity.

[Zanza2]

Fukushima was just the catalyst of this policy by the way. In 2002, the government agreed with the nuclear industry to phase out nuclear power by 2022. In 2010, the current government decided to prolong the lifetime of some reactors by up to 14 years. Now they go back to the original date of 2022. So what you guys seem to think of as a new policy is actually already almost 10 years old.

[Tamas]

Another luddite shit from Europe:
http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/news/110529_Field_destroyed

One year's worth of scientific work is destroyed by a few punks, who by the way, in their green fury, used PESTICIDES to kill the crops