Unions: good for workers or bad for business?

[Strix]

That is why we are paid what we are paid.

I think you've already clearly demonstrated that that isn't the reason why.

Yes, we clearly want someone of your demeanor and personality to be safeguarding the public from the criminals let out by the more liberal elements of our society.

Good news, you wouldn't even qualify for the job. 

[garbon]

Yes, we clearly want someone of your demeanor and personality to be safeguarding the public from the criminals let out by the more liberal elements of our society.

Good news, you wouldn't even qualify for the job. 

Why would I want such a lousy job?

[Strix]

Yes, we clearly want someone of your demeanor and personality to be safeguarding the public from the criminals let out by the more liberal elements of our society.

Good news, you wouldn't even qualify for the job. 

Why would I want such a lousy job?

That's true. Your indecisiveness and lack of moral character would suggest that you're much better suited to probably an Academic job.  Protecting the public safety and providing a useful service to the masses probably wouldn't be satisfying to you.

Than again, according to Berkut, anything requiring less than a Master's Degree is unskilled or low skilled labor at best. So, I am not sure where you fit in that spectrum.

[Berkut]

Why the bitterness Berkut? Did you not get hired by the State at some point? Or is it hard for you to comprehend that skilled labor isn't only based on how well you can read a technical manual?

NO bitterness at all, and no, I have never worked for the state.

I simply do not think for a moment that people who work for the state are remotely fairly compensated for what they do, in any measure that is not completely subjective.

I have immense respect for law enforcement, but that doesn't mean that I think any number they can browbeat a politician into is "fair". You guys are paid based strictly on the political consequences for politicians if they refuse to pay you what you demand. That isn't right.

[Berkut]

Than again, according to Berkut, anything requiring less than a Master's Degree is unskilled or low skilled labor at best. So, I am not sure where you fit in that spectrum.

Well, you certainly have the blatant lying part of the job down pat. A lack if integrity - is that important to being a parole officer?

Funny that you are lecturing others on their lack of moral character while you lie out of your ass - and you even know you are lying.

[garbon]

That's true. Your indecisiveness and lack of moral character would suggest that you're much better suited to probably an Academic job.

Why the fuck would I want an Academic job?

Protecting the public safety and providing a useful service to the masses probably wouldn't be satisfying to you.

Spot on. Only the delusional take comfort in that.

[Neil]

I think that based on the strength of this poll, we can safely abolish unions.

[Strix]

Than again, according to Berkut, anything requiring less than a Master's Degree is unskilled or low skilled labor at best. So, I am not sure where you fit in that spectrum.

Well, you certainly have the blatant lying part of the job down pat. A lack if integrity - is that important to being a parole officer?

Funny that you are lecturing others on their lack of moral character while you lie out of your ass - and you even know you are lying.

How so?

Look at Strix as a fine example - he is making nearly $80,000 doing nearly unskilled or low skilled work that requires nothing more than a bachelors degree, and the big beef he has with the governor is that the governor doesn't want to give him yet another yearly raise at a time when the state is looking at tens of billions of dollars in budget shortfall.

You clearly stated that unskilled and low skilled work requires nothing more than a bachelors degree. That would mean that skilled requires a more advanced degree i.e. a Master's or higher.

[Strix]

NO bitterness at all, and no, I have never worked for the state.

I simply do not think for a moment that people who work for the state are remotely fairly compensated for what they do, in any measure that is not completely subjective.

I have immense respect for law enforcement, but that doesn't mean that I think any number they can browbeat a politician into is "fair". You guys are paid based strictly on the political consequences for politicians if they refuse to pay you what you demand. That isn't right.

It all depends on your union. Parole doesn't belong to a law enforcement union because of the social worker aspect of our job. The bargaining unit I am associated with is Professional, Scientific and Technical Services. If they let us join NYSCOPBA than I'd be making a lot more with better benefits (and wouldn't have the thought of only 60% disability running through my head as I jump fences and wrestle with parolees on the ground).

And, yes, it is right. The point of a free market is to get fair market value for what goods or service you provide. Don't hate a union for getting a good deal. Hate the person who gave it to them. Which is my issue with Paterson. He didn't have to sign the last contract. Governors have refused to do so in the past, and union workers continue the current contract until a new one is worked out (with the new agreement being back dated).

Do you think it right to be able to change the terms of a contract halfway through? No, of course it isn't. If you want to change the terms than you need to negotiate. Paterson is unwilling to do so.

[Barrister]

It all depends on your union. Parole doesn't belong to a law enforcement union because of the social worker aspect of our job. The bargaining unit I am associated with is Professional, Scientific and Technical Services. If they let us join NYSCOPBA than I'd be making a lot more with better benefits (and wouldn't have the thought of only 60% disability running through my head as I jump fences and wrestle with parolees on the ground).

And, yes, it is right. The point of a free market is to get fair market value for what goods or service you provide. Don't hate a union for getting a good deal. Hate the person who gave it to them. Which is my issue with Paterson. He didn't have to sign the last contract. Governors have refused to do so in the past, and union workers continue the current contract until a new one is worked out (with the new agreement being back dated).

Do you think it right to be able to change the terms of a contract halfway through? No, of course it isn't. If you want to change the terms than you need to negotiate. Paterson is unwilling to do so.

First of all Strixy you know I greatly respectthe work of parole officers.  Hell my wife is currently working as a probation officer, which basically does the same thing (parole officers only deal with inmates released after 2+ year sentences, which are rare here).  There's also no way I'd call it an unskilled position.

I agree with "don't hat the untion because it got a good deal" - but instead I'll hate the system that gave rise to that deal.  And unfortunately there's only way that system can change - and thats by the government changing the laws.  If the current system is tilted towards public sector unions then you can't expect the employer to get a fair deal by simply renegotiating.  You have to tackle the underlying system.

[The Brain]

The Prosecutor wants to change the law? Isn't that treason of the worst kind?

[grumbler]

Look at Strix as a fine example - he is making nearly $80,000 doing nearly unskilled or low skilled work that requires nothing more than a bachelors degree, and the big beef he has with the governor is that the governor doesn't want to give him yet another yearly raise at a time when the state is looking at tens of billions of dollars in budget shortfall.

You clearly stated that unskilled and low skilled work requires nothing more than a bachelors degree. That would mean that skilled requires a more advanced degree i.e. a Master's or higher.

I take it that reading comprehension isn't a significant part of your job.  If it is, then I change my vote in the poll because you are clearly grossly unqualified for your job.

Berkut's comment was clearly about your work, not work in general. 

He even said "takle Strix as [an] example" and you still didn't get it!   

[Razgovory]

It all depends on your union. Parole doesn't belong to a law enforcement union because of the social worker aspect of our job. The bargaining unit I am associated with is Professional, Scientific and Technical Services. If they let us join NYSCOPBA than I'd be making a lot more with better benefits (and wouldn't have the thought of only 60% disability running through my head as I jump fences and wrestle with parolees on the ground).

And, yes, it is right. The point of a free market is to get fair market value for what goods or service you provide. Don't hate a union for getting a good deal. Hate the person who gave it to them. Which is my issue with Paterson. He didn't have to sign the last contract. Governors have refused to do so in the past, and union workers continue the current contract until a new one is worked out (with the new agreement being back dated).

Do you think it right to be able to change the terms of a contract halfway through? No, of course it isn't. If you want to change the terms than you need to negotiate. Paterson is unwilling to do so.

First of all Strixy you know I greatly respectthe work of parole officers.  Hell my wife is currently working as a probation officer, which basically does the same thing (parole officers only deal with inmates released after 2+ year sentences, which are rare here).  There's also no way I'd call it an unskilled position.

I agree with "don't hat the untion because it got a good deal" - but instead I'll hate the system that gave rise to that deal.  And unfortunately there's only way that system can change - and thats by the government changing the laws.  If the current system is tilted towards public sector unions then you can't expect the employer to get a fair deal by simply renegotiating.  You have to tackle the underlying system.

You hate Capitalism?

[Strix]

Berkut's comment was clearly about your work, not work in general. 

He even said "takle Strix as [an] example" and you still didn't get it!   

I got it. He basically was saying that I am doing unskilled and/or low skilled work because it only requires a bachelor's degree. That reads to me as bachelor degree or lower is unskilled and/or low skilled labor at best but perhaps it reads differently to you.

[Strix]

I agree with "don't hat the untion because it got a good deal" - but instead I'll hate the system that gave rise to that deal.  And unfortunately there's only way that system can change - and thats by the government changing the laws.  If the current system is tilted towards public sector unions then you can't expect the employer to get a fair deal by simply renegotiating.  You have to tackle the underlying system.

I have no issue if Paterson wants to take a tough stance on government waste and budget issues. My main problem is that he signed the contract than wants to tackle the problem.