So we hit the debt limit...

[LaCroix]

hadn't really thought of it before going in. it wasn't all bad. every once in awhile the system would surprise you with a letter that made some really good and insightful points (i don't recall any from the tp crowd..), but of course since it couldn't be immediately branded as belonging to a certain category, it had to end in the recycling bin alongside the many petitions and capitalization/exclamation mark fiends

[Berkut]

Maybe stop reading the news for a bit? You seem to be wigging out.

You know garbon, you know who you remind me of?  A Jew Kapo. Selling out for a few trinkets and extra rations, when in the end you're just going to get the same shitty deal. 

So go ahead, Uncle Teom, keep supporting the politics of the fucks that would put you first up against the wall for being a minority fag.

While Seedys ranting is kind of funny, I am always wondering exactly what point it is he is trying to make. I think we all get that he is an anti-capitalism communist or something like that, some sort of red of one kind or another...but WHAT kind?

I mean...what is it he is advocating for?

[Berkut]

On the same day HSBC announces its half-year earnings at $11.5 billion (with a B), it also announces it is getting rid of 35,000 jobs.

Just tossing it out there.


[Berkutstockanswer]
So?
[/Berkutstockanswer]

So?

My new job is working for the company that just bought a bunch of HSBcs retail bank branches today.

But you know CdRed, we are all rather aware that corporations really only care about their bottom lines and are perfectly willing to lay people off. That isn't news.

[Berkut]

Your as crazy as Raz and as hackish as DG.

Actually, that isn't really right - DG is actually not nearly as much a hack as you are...

I may be openly a liberal, but I bet my conservative bashing is fundamentally more objective than your "tribal thinking" bashing.  You don't need to equivocate to be objective.

No, buy you do need to think about things on their merits, rather than on their presence in one set or another.

Constant comments along the lines of "You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie" are pretty clearly non-objective. You will never get that though, because you have a profound faith in your infallibility and superiority to all others. I get that - I can't argue against faith.

[CountDeMoney]

I have pipe bombs to make brb

[Razgovory]

No, buy you do need to think about things on their merits, rather than on their presence in one set or another.

Constant comments along the lines of "You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie" are pretty clearly non-objective. You will never get that though, because you have a profound faith in your infallibility and superiority to all others. I get that - I can't argue against faith.

Why is you assume that Dguller and I don't?  From what I can tell you refuse to identify with a major political party, and for some reason this makes you somehow more objective then those who do.  I have no idea why you think this to be true.

[Zoupa]

Constant comments along the lines of "You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie" are pretty clearly non-objective.

This is why it's pointless to debate anything with you. You constantly put words in other poster's mouths and decide to rant against what you think people said. When and where did DG say that?

Anyways. Cue the "Zoupa is part of your tribe LOL euro cryptocommies".

[DGuller]

No, buy you do need to think about things on their merits, rather than on their presence in one set or another.

But the thing is that I do think on merits.  After all, of the two of us, I've been the one doing the bulk of the work actually looking up the data and analyzing it.  Just because you don't give me credit for thinking about things on merit doesn't mean that I don't.  It can, and does, mean that you just like to discount the depth of the thought process of others to exaggerate the depth of your own thought process, while in fact your thought process is just a variation of the highly lazy "pox on both houses" (or "pox on both tribes") thinking.

Constant comments along the lines of "You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie" are pretty clearly non-objective.

I disagree.  If you keep analyzing the economic issues, and keep finding that one side bends the truth to the point of snapping it like a twig, time and time again, on issue after issue, it isn't non-objective to say that "In fact, you can't go very wrong believing that everything conservatives say about the economy is a falsehood, because it usually is."  Equivocation or using weasel words does not equal objectivity.  The reason I'm saying that conservatives are almost always spouting falsehoods about economic issues is not because I'm a liberal, it's because time and again I have looked at the issues, and found conservatives pushing ideology to the absolute exclusion of properly interpreted facts.

You will never get that though, because you have a profound faith in your infallibility and superiority to all others. I get that - I can't argue against faith.

If you want to prick my faith in myself, don't use superficial arguments like "You say that conservatives almost always lie, you're not using neutral language, therefore you can't be objective."  Put some thought into it, besides the tired "tribe" bullshit.  Debates like the ones we had over the last 5 pages just reinforce my faith in my ability to analyze economic facts better than conservatives, or their moderate and rational apologists.

[Neil]

Constant comments along the lines of "You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie" are pretty clearly non-objective.

This is why it's pointless to debate anything with you. You constantly put words in other poster's mouths and decide to rant against what you think people said. When and where did DG say that?

Anyways. Cue the "Zoupa is part of your tribe LOL euro cryptocommies".

No, he actually said that further up the thread.

Besides, as a Quebecois, you already have a tribe.  You don't need the Tribe of the Strident, Hostile Democrat to accept you.

[DGuller]

Constant comments along the lines of "You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie" are pretty clearly non-objective.

This is why it's pointless to debate anything with you. You constantly put words in other poster's mouths and decide to rant against what you think people said. When and where did DG say that?

Anyways. Cue the "Zoupa is part of your tribe LOL euro cryptocommies".

No, he actually said that further up the thread.

Besides, as a Quebecois, you already have a tribe.  You don't need the Tribe of the Strident, Hostile Democrat to accept you.

I didn't quite say exactly that.  As usual, Berkut's paraphrasing misses the nuances of the people he's paraphrasing, to the point of attributing to them things that they didn't say. 

My statement didn't imply that conservatives are always lying about economic matters, it implied that they do it so often that it's safer to assume that what they say about economics is a lie rather than the truth.  Of course, if you analyze the issue yourself, you should come to a conclusion based on your analysis rather than based on what conservatives say about it, but that's not always practical.

[Berkut]

Constant comments along the lines of "You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie" are pretty clearly non-objective.

This is why it's pointless to debate anything with you. You constantly put words in other poster's mouths and decide to rant against what you think people said. When and where did DG say that?

Anyways. Cue the "Zoupa is part of your tribe LOL euro cryptocommies".

In fact, you can't go very wrong believing that everything conservatives say about the economy is a falsehood

[sbr]

"You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie"

/=

In fact, you can't go very wrong believing that everything conservatives say about the economy is a falsehood

[/quote]

Close but not quite.

[Berkut]

It has nothing to do with the neitrality of language - the actual words used are not nearly as important as the belief system that motivates the words.

You are trying to sell the idea that your party is so right that it is actually safe to just assume that you are right and the other guys are not just wrong, why they are actually lying about literally everything (or so close that it is better to just assume they are lying about everything). Sorry, that fails any possible objectivity test. You cannot argue that you evaluate on the merits while demanding that people not evaluate anything at all, because it is better if they just assume you are right, and the other guy is lying.

And this happens over and over and over again on almost every single nominally partisan subject.

Not being a partisan hack is not about any fallacy of the middle, it is about actually thinking about issues instead of just assuming "my party is right, and the other party is full of liars and cheats" in place of thinking. The funny thing is you keep claiming that I am always in the middle, yet my posting record pretty clearly disproves that. In fact, on any particular issue, my position is almost never in the middle. Hell, on THIS issue, I would have been much happer with Obamas 1:3 ratio plan than just about anything else I've heard. We probably actually agree. The entire debate hasn't even been about the issue, but my audacity at suggesting that the Tea Baggers MIGHT have a point worthy of not simply dismissing as a bunch of ignorance and lies. Oh, the heresy!

To the extent that you do any analysis, it is like a YEC spending time "proving" that the Earth is 6000 years old. They start with the a conclusion, and then work from there. That is not real analysis. The goal is not to learn the truth, but rather to prove the already known Truth.

[Berkut]

"You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie"

/=

In fact, you can't go very wrong believing that everything conservatives say about the economy is a falsehood

Close but not quite.
[/quote]

Close enough certainly.

[garbon]

"You can assume that anything a Conservative says about the economy is a lie"

/=

In fact, you can't go very wrong believing that everything conservatives say about the economy is a falsehood

Close but not quite.
[/quote]

That's pretty much the same. After all when you assume something their is always a slight chance that it was wrong to assume just like DGul's statement which suggests that there is only a small chance that you'll be wrong in "believing" what they say is a lie.