So we hit the debt limit...

[Berkut]

i dunno, berkut. i get what you're saying about the whole tribal/group mindset, but i don't think it can apply to condemnations of the tea party. when you get right down to it, at its core, there are a lot of stupid people involved with that movement who have no idea what they're talking about. that they might be accidentally right on some level is no surprise, what with stopped watches and all, but that doesn't mean they're any less ignorant of the world around them

Berkut's ... votes Republican 90% of the time...

Your as crazy as Raz and as hackish as DG.

Actually, that isn't really right - DG is actually not nearly as much a hack as you are...

[CountDeMoney]

But they would never have gotten the power they have if there was not a core of perfectly valid concepts that non-Tea Party types find resonates with them.

A black man in the White House is not a perfectly valid concept.

Face it, Berk: they never would've materialized if it wasn't for the prospect of a nigger winning it all.  Not Hillary, not Biden, not anybody else.

[CountDeMoney]

i dunno, berkut. i get what you're saying about the whole tribal/group mindset, but i don't think it can apply to condemnations of the tea party. when you get right down to it, at its core, there are a lot of stupid people involved with that movement who have no idea what they're talking about. that they might be accidentally right on some level is no surprise, what with stopped watches and all, but that doesn't mean they're any less ignorant of the world around them

Berkut's ... votes Republican 90% of the time...

Your as crazy as Raz and as hackish as DG.

Actually, that isn't really right - DG is actually not nearly as much a hack as you are...

At least I know I'm full of shit most of the time.  What's your excuse?

[DGuller]

Your as crazy as Raz and as hackish as DG.

Actually, that isn't really right - DG is actually not nearly as much a hack as you are...

I may be openly a liberal, but I bet my conservative bashing is fundamentally more objective than your "tribal thinking" bashing.  You don't need to equivocate to be objective.

[Razgovory]

But they would never have gotten the power they have if there was not a core of perfectly valid concepts that non-Tea Party types find resonates with them.

What concepts are these?

[LaCroix]

But they would never have gotten the power they have if there was not a core of perfectly valid concepts that non-Tea Party types find resonates with them.

that sounds suspiciously like an appeal to popularity to me. those non-tp types that find the concepts espoused by the tea party could just as easily fall in the same boat of not knowing the best course. if the tp has any power, it's because they seem like they have power--as you mentioned earlier in this thread. they -look- to be a popular movement within the republican party, and so senators and representatives will pander to their demands regardless of whether they're right or not.

there are those (grover norquist, etc) who believe the government is too large and should be cut down in size to the point where it can be drowned in a bathtub. the tp clings to this idea by and large, and together they channel their collective voice to the point where we now have a gross majority of republican representatives in the house pledging to never raise taxes. while there might be some legitimate argument that the government could function just as adequately and maintain the nation's international standing if it spent a certain measure less than it currently does (5%? 10%?), by no means does this offer credibility to the widely moronic views held by those certain individuals and movements that call for extreme action. in fact, i would think to even suggest they have basically the gist of a good argument (or "they were right to do what they were doing") is harmful as it lends support to their way of thinking when in reality they are way off base

[Jacob]

If that's a lie, then I'm constantly lying at work.

For example, we do an analysis, and we estimate that the average premium would go from $50 today to $60 some time in the future, solely due to the fact that policyholders increase the insured amounts over time.  We also look at projected losses, and decide in the future, policyholders would only need to pay $54 in premiums to cover for the expected losses. 

Does that qualify as a 10% cut in premiums ($60 to $54), or an 8% hike ($50 to $54)?  Everybody, on all sides, whether they are company actuaries, regulators, or consumer advocates, regard it as a 10% cut.  The reason is simple:  if we didn't change anything, policyholders would be paying $60 instead of $54.

The same exact thinking applies to a budget debate.  It may be counter-intuitive to the lay person to start with the projected budget as the baseline, especially a cynical lay person just looking for a reason to rag on the government, but it's absolutely the right way to think about it.  The baseline should be a number that you would have without having implemented any unusual action.

I think the problem is that basic actuarial and accounting principles are inconvenient in the current US political climate and thus are dealt with by labelling them "lies".

How else could it be controversial that the baseline of the budget is adjusted to the GDP? Is it really "out of control budget growth" to keep pace with inflation and a growth in GDP and population? If it isn't, then you have to accept that the baseline is in fact moving.

[CountDeMoney]

How else could it be controversial that the baseline of the budget is adjusted to the GDP? Is it really "out of control budget growth" to keep pace with inflation and a growth in GDP and population? If it isn't, then you have to accept that the baseline is in fact moving.

If .14 cents for a loaf of bread was good enough for Ike, it should good enough for us.

[CountDeMoney]

On the same day HSBC announces its half-year earnings at $11.5 billion (with a B), it also announces it is getting rid of 35,000 jobs.

Just tossing it out there.


[Berkutstockanswer]
So?
[/Berkutstockanswer]

[garbon]

On the same day HSBC announces its half-year earnings at $11.5 billion (with a B), it also announces it is getting rid of 35,000 jobs.

Just tossing it out there.


[Berkutstockanswer]
So?
[/Berkutstockanswer]

Okay.

[CountDeMoney]

Yeah, I expected that from you too, Sarah.

[garbon]

Maybe stop reading the news for a bit? You seem to be wigging out.

[Neil]

On the same day HSBC announces its half-year earnings at $11.5 billion (with a B), it also announces it is getting rid of 35,000 jobs.

Just tossing it out there.


[Berkutstockanswer]
So?
[/Berkutstockanswer]

Can you blame them?  If I employed a bunch of Chinese and people who voted Labour, I'd fire them too.

[Razgovory]

Can we all agree that Berkut going on about tribes impresses no one?

[CountDeMoney]

Maybe stop reading the news for a bit? You seem to be wigging out.

You know garbon, you know who you remind me of?  A Jew Kapo. Selling out for a few trinkets and extra rations, when in the end you're just going to get the same shitty deal. 

So go ahead, Uncle Teom, keep supporting the politics of the fucks that would put you first up against the wall for being a minority fag.