In NY, many school janitors paid more than teachers

[Martinus]

This makes sense because people will want to work as teachers because they enjoy teaching, and this should be exploited.

Actually, that's quite true, even though most people do not see job market that way.

I could have easily gone into academia instead of becoming a transaction lawyer. It would be a great, rewarding job, with great working hours, interesting topics, associated respect and three months of paid holidays a year. Only that it would pay diddly squat. As a transaction lawyer I earn about 5-10 times as much as I would if I was a college professor - it does not mean my job needs 5 times more qualifications than that of a college professor - only that I have to put up with much more shit (unpredictable working hours/days, being available pretty much 24 hours a day, often boring/repetitive work, having to put up with asshole "clients", and whatnot).

The bottom line is - a janitor probably has to put up with much more shit than a teacher, so he gets paid more. It's about supply and demand, not who is more educated.

[Martinus]

Yeah I think you are just perceiving that bent. I perceive that people were upset that the focus of the schools - the educators - weren't paid as much a supporting staff - the janitors.

I thought you were a free market supporter, not a socialist. A plumber in Poland earn more than a first year college professor. Why? Because noone wants to be a plumber and everybody wants to be a college professor.

[Warspite]

I could have easily gone into academia instead of becoming a transaction lawyer. It would be a great, rewarding job, with great working hours, interesting topics, associated respect and three months of paid holidays a year.

Academia isn't really like this any more.

[garbon]

Yeah I think you are just perceiving that bent. I perceive that people were upset that the focus of the schools - the educators - weren't paid as much a supporting staff - the janitors.

I thought you were a free market supporter, not a socialist. A plumber in Poland earn more than a first year college professor. Why? Because noone wants to be a plumber and everybody wants to be a college professor.

An admin shouldn't be paid more than his boss. I'm going to pointedly ignore your irrelevant comparison.

[Martinus]

An admin shouldn't be paid more than his boss. I'm going to pointedly ignore your irrelevant comparison.

Talk about irrelevant. A teacher is not a janitor's boss. 

[garbon]

That's so surprising. But then I also posted an article in this thread where some janitors were raking in more than the principals.

[Faeelin]

The bottom line is - a janitor probably has to put up with much more shit than a teacher, so he gets paid more. It's about supply and demand, not who is more educated.

Given that a million people just applied for 38,000 slots at McDonalds in America, I suspect there are plenty of people who'd be happy to become janitors.

[The Brain]

Yeah I think you are just perceiving that bent. I perceive that people were upset that the focus of the schools - the educators - weren't paid as much a supporting staff - the janitors.

I thought you were a free market supporter, not a socialist. A plumber in Poland earn more than a first year college professor. Why? Because noone wants to be a plumber and everybody wants to be a college professor.

[Martinus]

The bottom line is - a janitor probably has to put up with much more shit than a teacher, so he gets paid more. It's about supply and demand, not who is more educated.

Given that a million people just applied for 38,000 slots at McDonalds in America, I suspect there are plenty of people who'd be happy to become janitors.

I suspect you have no idea what you are talking about. If there were plenty of people who'd be happy to become janitors, it would drive the wages down, but somehow it doesn't.

It's actually quite funny that you seem to think a janitor job requires as much skill/training as a McDonald's employee - only shows your ivory tower elitism. The job is not just about sweeping floors, but it requires some training/education in stuff like electricity, technology and the like and probably that's why it is beyond the grasp of your average McDonald's employee who "would be happy to become a janitor". 

The problem with modern Western societies is that physical work without a college/university degree is seen as degrading/bad - as your or garbon's outrage demonstrates quite clearly (at least you got a useful college degree). So we either have unskilled workers like your McDonald's employees, or people who are desperate to get some degree, and end up with useless stuff like pol-sci, sociology or gender studies, which effectively makes the investment made by the society into their education a waste. You do not have many people who go into under-grad "technical" schools which teach them how to be an electrician, a car mechanic or a plumber - so people who end up being educated for these professions get paid more than what you'd expect in your upper middle class ivory tower.

[Martinus]

That's so surprising. But then I also posted an article in this thread where some janitors were raking in more than the principals.

I'm willing to bet there are people employed by the US government (especially consultants and the like) who get paid more than their "boss", the US President. So your statement is false.

Besides, the principal in a school is not really a "boss". He is not an executive, and the school is not a corporation. He is an administrator, employed by whoever owns the school (usually a school board) to do what his job description entails.

[Martinus]

Also, even if you insist on blaming the unions for that, it doesn't really make sense. So, the union got janitors a sweet deal so they are paid more than teachers. But aren't teachers also unionized? Why can't they get a better/similar deal and be paid more, if it is really true that a teacher's work is worth more than a janitor's work? Are janitors so smart or such glib negotiators that they are getting a better deal than teachers? Or perhaps there is a janitor mafia which breaks your legs with broomsticks if you do not agree to the union's demands?

Now, I have seen grumbler and Tim, so I am willing to allow a possibility that an average US teacher could be outsmarted by an average janitor, but I think the fact that there is an over-abundance of teachers and a shortage of janitors is the real reason here, which translates into the janitor union having more bargaining power.

[Faeelin]

I suspect you have no idea what you are talking about. If there were plenty of people who'd be happy to become janitors, it would drive the wages down, but somehow it doesn't.

This presumes that there are no entry barriers created by unions or the state for political favors. But since you seem to know what being a janitor entails, wanna tell us what the requirements to be a janitor in New York are? Or is this pontificating based upon what you imagine?

[Faeelin]

A quick google turns up this link for private salaries in New YOrk: for janitors:http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-janitor/l-new+york,+ny

Yes. This is obviously due to a lack of janitors.

[garbon]

I appreciate that Marti sees schools as having unlimited funds and resources.

I also appreciate that Marti, who often tries so hard to paint himself as part of the elite, will lecture others about elitism.

[Martinus]

I appreciate that Marti sees schools as having unlimited funds and resources.

What the fuck are you talking about? You pay teachers a pittance because exactly schools have limited funds and resources.

Also, anyone who uses the verb "appreciate" in the sense you just did is a pretentious, conceited dick. This is not your gender studies debate workshop.