In NY, many school janitors paid more than teachers

[Caliga]

@garbon
I think that's true in my case as well.

I was pretty much self-taught, as were most of my peers.  Teachers were just there to keep the place orderly and the bad kids under control.

[Caliga]

I imagine his was the same.  In fact, nobody actually voted for Obama.  It was merely a massive conspiracy.

Even Hans has never thrown anything like that out there.

[starbright]

Probably another BS article comparing teaching assistants to the head janitor.

I bet it takes more years to get certified as head custodian than head of the math department.

[Camerus]

Probably another BS article comparing teaching assistants to the head janitor.

I bet it takes more years to get certified as head custodian than head of the math department.

Can't speak for New York, but in my province, to be the head of the math department these days, you would generally need about 6 years of university education.   (4 for bachelor degree + 1 for education degree + 1 for masters degree).

Anyway, it seems US teachers have a serious image problem in the US.  Comparatively low pay, and pretty much everyone has only negative things to say about them. 

[Grey Fox]

Probably another BS article comparing teaching assistants to the head janitor.

I bet it takes more years to get certified as head custodian than head of the math department.

Can't speak for New York, but in my province, to be the head of the math department these days, you would generally need about 6 years of university education.   (4 for bachelor degree + 1 for education degree + 1 for masters degree).

Anyway, it seems US teachers have a serious image problem in the US.  Comparatively low pay, and pretty much everyone has only negative things to say about them. 

It's because the sucky ones never get fired.

[Razgovory]

I imagine his was the same.  In fact, nobody actually voted for Obama.  It was merely a massive conspiracy.

Even Hans has never thrown anything like that out there.

More of a Glenn Beck thing.

[garbon]

@garbon
I think that's true in my case as well.

I was pretty much self-taught, as were most of my peers.  Teachers were just there to keep the place orderly and the bad kids under control.

In M'boro the teachers barely managed that.

[Berkut]

Probably another BS article comparing teaching assistants to the head janitor.

I bet it takes more years to get certified as head custodian than head of the math department.

Can't speak for New York, but in my province, to be the head of the math department these days, you would generally need about 6 years of university education.   (4 for bachelor degree + 1 for education degree + 1 for masters degree).

Anyway, it seems US teachers have a serious image problem in the US.  Comparatively low pay, and pretty much everyone has only negative things to say about them. 

Well, I think you see a slanted view, since your only exposure to the US image is via the media, and hence only when there is something to fight about. I think most people actually have a pretty positive view towards teaching and teachers.

To the extent that it is negative, it is largely driven by the perception, right or wrong, that teachers have a cushy job where plenty who aren't very good at what they do are protected from being canned.

[Razgovory]

I remember in Highschool many of the teachers had to take second jobs on account of how cushy their jobs were.

[Pat]

This makes sense because people will want to work as teachers because they enjoy teaching, and this should be exploited.

[KRonn]

I have a positive perception of teachers. I dislike the demonizing that goes on when divisive or political issues come up, like Union contracts, paying for benefits, pensions, etc.  To be expected though I guess, if teachers are seen as not contributing to their benefits as most other workers do; that kind of thing. But still, I respect the job teachers do; and try to separate them from the politics.

[Ideologue]

I really dislike the unpleasant, classist tone of the detractors in the article.  "Of course a white collar worker should make more than a lowly janitor!"  But as mentioned upthread, the lowly janitor is required to do more work, and very likely, more varied work, without which the entire building would become uninhabitable, a claim that no single teacher can make.  Shockingly, they are paid slightly more.

[garbon]

I really dislike the unpleasant, classist tone of the detractors in the article.  "Of course a white collar worker should make more than a lowly janitor!"  But as mentioned upthread, the lowly janitor is required to do more work, and very likely, more varied work, without which the entire building would become uninhabitable, a claim that no single teacher can make.  Shockingly, they are paid slightly more.

I'm not sure I like what you are saying. In that direction, the janitor in my building should make more than I or any of the bankers that populate the building.

It's also a bit misleading, as myself, the bankers or teachers could clean the building (we have the ability) but choose to pursue other professions. I'm not sure if that would work from the janitor's position.

[Ideologue]

I really dislike the unpleasant, classist tone of the detractors in the article.  "Of course a white collar worker should make more than a lowly janitor!"  But as mentioned upthread, the lowly janitor is required to do more work, and very likely, more varied work, without which the entire building would become uninhabitable, a claim that no single teacher can make.  Shockingly, they are paid slightly more.

I'm not sure I like what you are saying. In that direction, the janitor in my building should make more than I or any of the bankers that populate the building.

It's also a bit misleading, as myself, the bankers or teachers could clean the building (we have the ability) but choose to pursue other professions. I'm not sure if that would work from the janitor's position.

I'm just saying it seems like they've gotten a better deal, probably because they have more bargaining power than the teachers.

I'm also echoing the notion that "cleaning" is probably not the most challenging responsibility of custodians.  Yeah, you can hire anyone to do that; you cannot hire just anyone to fix all the routine problems a large building is likely to have.  If really all they're doing is taking out trash, then NYC (or the specific authorities here) could probably cut some expenses, but I don't think that's all there is to it.

The tone, of course, merely annoys me because of the borderline-Victorian umbrage taken at the temerity of the school districts to pay a dirty manual laborer more than a clean knowledge worker.

[DGuller]

I have a positive perception of teachers. I dislike the demonizing that goes on when divisive or political issues come up, like Union contracts, paying for benefits, pensions, etc.  To be expected though I guess, if teachers are seen as not contributing to their benefits as most other workers do; that kind of thing. But still, I respect the job teachers do; and try to separate them from the politics.

This bit about "contributing to one's benefits" is a red herring.  Who nominally pays for the benefits is irrelevant, the incidence is unchanged.  The whole salary and benefits is the compensation package.  The only exception is where you have a choice over your benefits, and having to pay some percentage of it might make the employee make a more efficient choice.

Increasing the "contribution" to the benefits is just a stealthy pay cut, just like increasing the work week.  That's most likely how employees in the private had their "contributions" increased over the years.  Rarely is the increase in the "contributions" accompanied by a larger than normal salary raise.  It's just a lot easier to require someone to contribute an extra 1% of their salary to their benefits, rather than cut everyone's salary directly by 1%.