Teaching the Civil War, 150 Years Later...THE MEGATHREAD

Started by CountDeMoney, April 10, 2011, 10:50:00 PM

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Berkut

#90
April 12, 2011, 01:39:58 PM
How was the south going to get artillery onto LTR in time to be useful?
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Admiral Yi

#91
April 12, 2011, 01:43:41 PM
Quote from: Berkut on April 12, 2011, 01:39:58 PM
How was the south going to get artillery onto LTR in time to be useful?

Pulling on ropes?

Viking

#92
April 12, 2011, 01:45:22 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 12, 2011, 01:26:13 PM
I'm not sure I buy that.  Artillery posted on LRT enfilades the entire Union position on Missionary Ridge.  Plus the only road the Union controlled was the one leading from Gettysburg to the southeast.  LRT threatens that.  So the best case for the Union would probably have been a messy and difficult disengagemnt to Meade's original line of defense further south.

QuoteThe two highest battlefield points are at Round Top to the south with the higher round summit of Big Round Top, the lower oval summit of Little Round Top, and a saddle between. The Round Tops are rugged and strewn with large boulders; as is Devil's Den to the west. [Big] Round Top, known also to locals of the time as Sugar Loaf, is 116 feet (35 m) higher than its Little companion. Its steep slopes are heavily wooded, which made it unsuitable for siting artillery without a large effort to climb the heights with horse-drawn guns and clear lines of fire; Little Round Top was unwooded, but its steep and rocky form made it difficult to deploy artillery in mass. However, Cemetery Hill was an excellent site for artillery, commanding all of the Union lines on Cemetery Ridge and the approaches to them. Little Round Top and Devil's Den were key locations for General John Bell Hood's division in Longstreet's assault during the second day of battle, July 2, 1863. The Plum Run Valley between Houck's Ridge and the Round Tops earned the name Valley of Death on that day.

From Wiki.

Basically you'd have to spend a day or two lugging the guns up there after taking little round top, taking the confederate artillery off line for that time, while hoping that the Union can't take LRT back with artillery support when the confederates clearly have their artillery limbered in bad terrain. In that case I'd expect a Union assualt with artillery support against unsupported confederate lines leading to the confederates breaking leaving the artillery stuck in bad terrain resulting in the confederates losing both the army and the artillery.
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Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

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Berkut

#93
April 12, 2011, 01:47:18 PM Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 01:53:52 PM by Berkut
The Baltimore Pike ran up to Cemetery Ridge. This was not controlled by LRT.

Taneytown road did run just behind Cemetery Ridge, and behind LRT. But artillery on LRT cannot dominate the road, except for the part that would be directly behind LRT, and hence behind Confederate, not Union, lines. And even if the south could get artillery up there (almost impossible, the union could not and they actually had the road to use - LRT was desnely forested), they certainly could not get enough ammunition up to dominate anything. I've been on LRT - you can't see shit from up there.

Taneytown road, in fact, is what would make LRT almost useless for the South, even if they took it. It allowed the Union the ability to quickly shift forces along the length of their front, and would have allowed them to shift forces quickly south to contain any flanking effort.



Here is a map of the battlefield. Note that LRT does not really dominate any of the roads the Union used for reinforcements by late in the second day. The Emmitsburg Road was used on Day 1 (and perhaps early on Day 2) but was clearly no longer under Union control by the time the fight for LRT got going, and controlling LRT meant nothing as far as reinforcements or supplies were concerned by the time it was fought over.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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Razgovory

#95
April 12, 2011, 02:54:04 PM
There really isn't any good place to attack but Cemetery ridge and Cemetery Hill.  Moving further south to cut off the Taneytown road would effectively split the army in two.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Caliga

#96
April 12, 2011, 02:59:42 PM
My grandfather went to a boarding school in Gettysburg after his mom died and then attended Gettysburg College and finally Gettysburg Seminary (the one by Seminary Ridge).  He used to dig shit up from the battle in his spare time.  He gave some of it to me.  I have a bunch of minie balls and a cannonball. :cool:
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KRonn

#97
April 12, 2011, 03:11:01 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 12, 2011, 02:59:42 PM
My grandfather went to a boarding school in Gettysburg after his mom died and then attended Gettysburg College and finally Gettysburg Seminary (the one by Seminary Ridge).  He used to dig shit up from the battle in his spare time.  He gave some of it to me.  I have a bunch of minie balls and a cannonball. :cool:
That's pretty cool.   

And hang onto that ammo, in case we have a second ACW.   ;)

Caliga

#98
April 12, 2011, 03:16:00 PM
Oh don't worry, I have thousands of rounds of modern ammo stockpiled. :showoff: :tinfoil:
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KRonn

#99
April 12, 2011, 03:17:39 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 12, 2011, 03:16:00 PM
Oh don't worry, I have thousands of rounds of modern ammo stockpiled. :showoff: :tinfoil:
Hehe...

Admiral Yi

#100
April 12, 2011, 03:25:46 PM
Pop quiz: where was the minie ball invented?

Valmy

#101
April 12, 2011, 03:26:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 12, 2011, 03:25:46 PM
Pop quiz: where was the minie ball invented?

France
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Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Habbaku

#103
April 12, 2011, 03:40:48 PM
Min-yawn.
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HisMajestyBOB

#104
April 12, 2011, 03:42:39 PM
Le minie ball
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