God Help Me.

[Eddie Teach]

re Euros: Plenty of atheist Euros here, but that's a Euro trait.  Like left-leaning governments, environmental awareness, or anti-semitism.

re Americans: most of the atheist posters here also identify themselves as "libertarians", yet display the same overeducated pretentiousness about atheism they despise in ivory tower liberal intellectuals, which is sorta funny.   Kind of like people who claim to be bisexual, but for some reason only suck cock.

Self-identify as libertarians?

Not really. Caliga and VM may fit that description but I think he's mostly talking about Berkut and Grumbler.

[Norgy]

I was going to say that it's not up to you to question GOD, but frankly, how the hell would I know that?

See, that's my biggest beef with God. This whole "mysterious ways" explanation is too convenient. If I were World President Of The United Nations, my first act would be to launch a fearless inquiry into what God has done for us lately. Was he behind the Japanese tsunami? And if not, isn't this omnipotence thing just false advertising? Shouldn't God be subject to the same scrutiny as us humans, if it indeed is so that he sees everything? And who voted for him? I think his rule, eternal or not, is fundamentally undemocratic, especially the issue of only those who believe in him get to enter his kingdom. That's just cruel.

My second act would probably be to be blown to bits by suicide bombers for insulting not just God and Jahwe but Allah as well.

And there, perhaps, is my biggest issue with religion. It's just symbolism to rally people for this or that cause.

[Neil]

Time marches on, my friend.

Not for Me it doesn't.  I remember things.

[Barrister]

Time marches on, my friend.

Not for Me it doesn't.  I remember things.

Where did I pack my portable drill?  Do you remember that?

[Ideologue]

Time marches on, my friend.

Not for Me it doesn't.  I remember things.

But Tom Phillips didn't remember to ask for CAP.

However, the age of the carrier is over too, and probably was as soon as long-range nuclear cruise missiles came into being--we just never noticed because we never fought a major surface action after 1945.  C'est la guerre.

[Neil]

But Tom Phillips didn't remember to ask for CAP.

However, the age of the carrier is over too, and probably was as soon as long-range nuclear cruise missiles came into being--we just never noticed because we never fought a major surface action after 1945.  C'est la guerre.

Yeah.  It's very sad.  The atomic bomb has really put a kink in industrialized warfare.  It's a shame.

[Neil]

Time marches on, my friend.

Not for Me it doesn't.  I remember things.

Where did I pack my portable drill?  Do you remember that?

Elizabeth May stole it out of your trailer, but she will escape prosecution for some Svend Robinson-esque reasons.

[crazy canuck]

Only read the first page.  Did the thread ever recover from Slargo taint?

[Barrister]

Only read the first page.  Did the thread ever recover from Slargo taint?

Not really - Berkut and me tried on page 5 or so to resusitate it, but with not many takers.

[Slargos]

I was going to say that it's not up to you to question GOD, but frankly, how the hell would I know that?

See, that's my biggest beef with God. This whole "mysterious ways" explanation is too convenient. If I were World President Of The United Nations, my first act would be to launch a fearless inquiry into what God has done for us lately. Was he behind the Japanese tsunami? And if not, isn't this omnipotence thing just false advertising? Shouldn't God be subject to the same scrutiny as us humans, if it indeed is so that he sees everything? And who voted for him? I think his rule, eternal or not, is fundamentally undemocratic, especially the issue of only those who believe in him get to enter his kingdom. That's just cruel.

My second act would probably be to be blown to bits by suicide bombers for insulting not just God and Jahwe but Allah as well.

And there, perhaps, is my biggest issue with religion. It's just symbolism to rally people for this or that cause.

In the post-massmedial age no one can stand up to scrutiny, not even God. 

I think that's a red herring. Did he personally wake up one morning (does God sleep?) and decide to shake Japan? Maybe. I don't know. Did he set about the events that led to the quake? Perhaps. I don't know.

Am I going to second-guess the Almighty? No, that would be silly. I'm sure he had his reasons even if those reasons seem unreasonable. Or perhaps he didn't. Either way, it's not up to me to decide, it's just life.

Religion is "just symbolism"? No, Norgy. You are wrong, even if you will never understand it.

A friend of mine noted while I was having a discussion about a similar subject with someone, and was trying to explain the motivation behind a behaviour, "I see how it's possible to think that way; I understand, but I think some people simply can't."

And perhaps it's true, that some people simply are not able to understand no matter what manner of rhetoric or narrative you employ. I choose to believe, perhaps in my naivete, that this is not true and that you just need to find the correct narrative for enlightenment in any given situation. I think that the problem lies, however, in whether you will be allowed to work on the narrative long enough for enlightenment, or whether the other person will simply shut down.

[Ideologue]

Something I've always been surprised about is how smarter believers have generally failed to pick up on many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and apply it to theodicy, insofar as it is an absolute solution to the Problem of Evil, and also grafts a nice pro-life sentiment onto the Creation.

Btw, the vocabulary of the board's spellchecker is weak.

[Slargos]

Something I've always been surprised about is how smarter believers have generally failed to pick up on many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and apply it to theodicy, insofar as it is an absolute solution to the Problem of Evil, and also grafts a nice pro-life sentiment onto the Creation.

Btw, the vocabulary of the board's spellchecker is weak.

Perhaps they're smart enough to not to get into a debate they know they can't win, and indeed don't really want to?

[Viking]

  Being new here, I honestly have no idea what this will spark up, but I wanted to get a general average of people's religious beliefs here, and I'd like to know why you people believe what you do.

   I, for one, am Nothing. I live in the present, as I don't care what happens to me when I die. The closest thing to me would be Atheism, although I will nothe presumptuous enough to say, without a shadow of a doubt, that there is no God. If there is, cool. If not, awesome. Even if there were a corporeal God I'd still lack the capacity to care. I am also far from Agnostic. I choose not to believe in the concept of anything religious. 

   That being said, go at it.

I know I'm late to this thread.. but talk about a lack of self belief? How do you have the self confidence to get up in the morning?

[crazy canuck]

Something I've always been surprised about is how smarter believers have generally failed to pick up on many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and apply it to theodicy, insofar as it is an absolute solution to the Problem of Evil, and also grafts a nice pro-life sentiment onto the Creation.

Btw, the vocabulary of the board's spellchecker is weak.

But it doesnt really.  Even if one accepts the Quantum Theory proposition that all possible outcomes exist in separate realities a believer is still stuck with the problem that God allowed all those shitty outcomes to occur.

[Slargos]

Something I've always been surprised about is how smarter believers have generally failed to pick up on many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics and apply it to theodicy, insofar as it is an absolute solution to the Problem of Evil, and also grafts a nice pro-life sentiment onto the Creation.

Btw, the vocabulary of the board's spellchecker is weak.

But it doesnt really.  Even if one accepts the Quantum Theory proposition that all possible outcomes exist in separate realities a believer is still stuck with the problem that God allowed all those shitty outcomes to occur.

And why exactly is this a problem?