[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Crazy_Ivan80]

So, the (female) Canadian foreign trade minister was on Bill Maher yesterday and now I gotta say that quotas in government are stupid. Because she was dumb as shit.

It did seem like the only reason she got her job was because they needed enough ministers with a clitoris...

She can't be that dumb, she worked in newspapers before this.

not necessarily an endorsement...

[Martinus]

So, the (female) Canadian foreign trade minister was on Bill Maher yesterday and now I gotta say that quotas in government are stupid. Because she was dumb as shit.

It did seem like the only reason she got her job was because they needed enough ministers with a clitoris...

She can't be that dumb, she worked in newspapers before this.

not necessarily an endorsement...

I don't think Jospehus was being serious.

[Josephus]

I work in newspapers.

I saw the show Marti refers too...I didn't know it was her, she actually is a fairly frequent guest on his show, at least once a year.

[Barrister]

No commentary on Alberta's new carbon tax?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-climate-change-newser-1.3330153

Here's one of the biggest political fibs I've seen for awhile.  The NDP are saying this $3-$6 billion dollar tax will be "revenue neutral", because the proceeds will be re-invested in Alberta.  Uh, no.  That's not what "revenue neutral" means.  Revenue neutral means that while you increase taxes in one area, you reduce them in another so that the government takes in the same amount of tax.

I'd be cool with a truly revenue neutral carbon tax.  But no what we have is yet another tax increase, coming on the heels of a provincial income tax increase, provincial business tax increase, the increased uncertainty of an ongoing "royalty review", and of course the promise of higher federal income taxes...

[PRC]

Industry seems to be on board with the carbon tax.  Suncor, Cenovus and Shell all support it.  I think the key is it puts a cap on emissions, and there is no cap on production.  Hopefully that leads to some innovation.

[Barrister]

Industry seems to be on board with the carbon tax.  Suncor, Cenovus and Shell all support it.  I think the key is it puts a cap on emissions, and there is no cap on production.  Hopefully that leads to some innovation.

Yeah, about that.  While there is going to be a carbon tax, there are also going to be "subsidies to large emitters" like Suncor, Cenovus and Shell...

[viper37]

That explains the support.

[PRC]

Industry seems to be on board with the carbon tax.  Suncor, Cenovus and Shell all support it.  I think the key is it puts a cap on emissions, and there is no cap on production.  Hopefully that leads to some innovation.

Yeah, about that.  While there is going to be a carbon tax, there are also going to be "subsidies to large emitters" like Suncor, Cenovus and Shell...

That helps them stay competitive which would be their biggest challenge with the price of oil where it is, on top of the carbon tax.  Their costs don't rise too much while they still have to work on limiting their emissions.

[crazy canuck]

Industry seems to be on board with the carbon tax.  Suncor, Cenovus and Shell all support it.  I think the key is it puts a cap on emissions, and there is no cap on production.  Hopefully that leads to some innovation.

Yeah, about that.  While there is going to be a carbon tax, there are also going to be "subsidies to large emitters" like Suncor, Cenovus and Shell...

That helps them stay competitive which would be their biggest challenge with the price of oil where it is, on top of the carbon tax.  Their costs don't rise too much while they still have to work on limiting their emissions.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.  Given the new cap on emissions the companies need to have the ability to spend money on finding ways to limit emissions.  That kind of innovation is unlikely to occur if at the same time the costs are increased by the tax.  I think the plan of increasing energy costs through a carbon tax with revenue returned to targeted areas makes sense - especially in a Province that has taken relatively cheap access to energy produced by fossil fuels for granted. 

[Barrister]

Industry seems to be on board with the carbon tax.  Suncor, Cenovus and Shell all support it.  I think the key is it puts a cap on emissions, and there is no cap on production.  Hopefully that leads to some innovation.

Yeah, about that.  While there is going to be a carbon tax, there are also going to be "subsidies to large emitters" like Suncor, Cenovus and Shell...

That helps them stay competitive which would be their biggest challenge with the price of oil where it is, on top of the carbon tax.  Their costs don't rise too much while they still have to work on limiting their emissions.

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.  Given the new cap on emissions the companies need to have the ability to spend money on finding ways to limit emissions.  That kind of innovation is unlikely to occur if at the same time the costs are increased by the tax.  I think the plan of increasing energy costs through a carbon tax with revenue returned to targeted areas makes sense - especially in a Province that has taken relatively cheap access to energy produced by fossil fuels for granted.

The problem is you're imposing a three billion dollar tax on the economy, at a time when it's already in recession.  And since it's not being paid by the largest emitters, that means it's being paid by everyone else.  Gas prices will go up 4.7 cents per litre.  Home heating costs to go up an average of $480 / year.  And all at a time when we're in recession.

I looked it up - Alberta has a $375 billion dollar economy.  A three billion dollar tax is one percent of our entire economy.  That's huge.

[crazy canuck]

Not as significant as you make out since the plan is to return much of that money to the economy.  Its not like one percent of the economy will be removed. 

[Barrister]

Not as significant as you make out since the plan is to return much of that money to the economy.  Its not like one percent of the economy will be removed.

Ah yes - good old tax-and-spend our way to prosperity.  I'm sure this time it'll actually work!

[Grey Fox]

Prosperity is not the goal tho.

[crazy canuck]

Not as significant as you make out since the plan is to return much of that money to the economy.  Its not like one percent of the economy will be removed.

Ah yes - good old tax-and-spend our way to prosperity.  I'm sure this time it'll actually work!

Not sure what that ideological argument has to do with this.  Your comment was that the money was leaving the economy.  It isn't.  But what this tax is designed to do is modify behavior.  The experience in BC is that is largely what a carbon tax does do.

[Barrister]

Not as significant as you make out since the plan is to return much of that money to the economy.  Its not like one percent of the economy will be removed.

Ah yes - good old tax-and-spend our way to prosperity.  I'm sure this time it'll actually work!

Not sure what that ideological argument has to do with this.  Your comment was that the money was leaving the economy.  It isn't.  But what this tax is designed to do is modify behavior.  The experience in BC is that is largely what a carbon tax does do.

But BC's carbon tax was revenue-neutral.