[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grey Fox]

Actually, I belive that truth lies somewhere in between. They lost because Central Canada woke up.

[crazy canuck]

That article is exactly what the Conservatives don't need.  The Conservatives wont learn the proper lessons from this defeat if they don't think their policies and rhetoric were too extreme.  The Conservatives are never going to be in power again if they only appeal to the right wing that appreciated both those things.

A majority of Canadians supported the Conservatives on most of the issues where you think they were too extreme. It was already pointed out to you several times how popular the Niqab ban was, when are you going to get this through your head? The worst thing they could do is listen more to people like you. The Conservatives lost primarily for economic reasons.

If you were right the conservatives would have won in a landslide.  But it comforting that the extremists still think it was for some other reason - at least they will not learn the proper lesson and will never be in power again.

[viper37]

At the time the Liberals made the commitment it was very much going against the grain.  Both the NDP and the Conservatives had committed to balanced budgets.  When the Liberals took their position they were still well behind in the polls and there was no certainty that their policy position would become popular.

Really?
Look at Quebec: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Greece: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at France: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Portugal: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Spain: multiple protests against austerity.

Balancing the budget is courage.  Doing what the protestors want is not.

[viper37]

At the time the Liberals made the commitment it was very much going against the grain.  Both the NDP and the Conservatives had committed to balanced budgets.  When the Liberals took their position they were still well behind in the polls and there was no certainty that their policy position would become popular.

Yeah, the orthodoxy of the time was very much "balanced budgets!"

orthodoxy does not mean it's popular:
http://rabble.ca/news/2015/04/service-cuts-ontarios-austerity-budget-spark-protest

[viper37]

And was never going to happen because the Conservative assumptions were too optimistic.  The Liberals had the right idea all along 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/liberals-inherit-deficit-that-could-jeopardize-budget-goals-study/article27185719/

The Conservatives could very well had made adjustments to their plans.  The Liberals could do too, theoritically, but the Conservatives had room to spare, not the Libs.

[viper37]

That article is exactly what the Conservatives don't need.  The Conservatives wont learn the proper lessons from this defeat if they don't think their policies and rhetoric were too extreme.  The Conservatives are never going to be in power again if they only appeal to the right wing that appreciated both those things.

A majority of Canadians supported the Conservatives on most of the issues where you think they were too extreme. It was already pointed out to you several times how popular the Niqab ban was, when are you going to get this through your head? The worst thing they could do is listen more to people like you. The Conservatives lost primarily for economic reasons.

If you were right the conservatives would have won in a landslide.  But it comforting that the extremists still think it was for some other reason - at least they will not learn the proper lesson and will never be in power again.

I'd say the extremists won:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/majority-of-canadians-support-conservatives-niqab-ban-poll-finds
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/majority-of-canadians-support-conservatives-niqab-ban-poll-finds

On this, I could say the Liberals displayed courage, the same courage Erdogan had when he freed women from the horrible oppression of not being allowed to wear extremists religious symbols.  Now, we know where that led.  Some people still try their hardest to ignore it.
The same people that would be shocked if someone whore a swatiska in public, strangely.

[viper37]

Oh, and the planned structural deficit by year 4 is now 11billion$ with the Libs, compared to 2.2 billion$ for the Conservative budget.

Making a few adjustments to get 2 billion$ back is hard, but making adjustments for 11billion$ is impossible without raising taxes of the middle class.

As I said before, the Liberal plan was bullshit.  I wasn't impressed by the pro-Liberal economist they used to shed credibility on their plan (it's a know trick of the Libs, federal or provincial) and I my opinion is unchanged now.

The stimulus plan will endebt the country and make the sacrifices harder for the next government, Liberal or otherwise.
And they, they will pull a neat Liberal trick: cut provincial transfers.

[crazy canuck]

At the time the Liberals made the commitment it was very much going against the grain.  Both the NDP and the Conservatives had committed to balanced budgets.  When the Liberals took their position they were still well behind in the polls and there was no certainty that their policy position would become popular.

Really?
Look at Quebec: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Greece: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at France: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Portugal: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Spain: multiple protests against austerity.

Balancing the budget is courage.  Doing what the protestors want is not.

People say that political memory is short but wow, the election campaign just ended and you are already able to produce a narrative which is so completely inconsistent with what actually occurred.  And you have probably convinced yourself you are correct.  I think I will leave you and Ancient Demon to rant for a while.

[viper37]

At the time the Liberals made the commitment it was very much going against the grain.  Both the NDP and the Conservatives had committed to balanced budgets.  When the Liberals took their position they were still well behind in the polls and there was no certainty that their policy position would become popular.

Really?
Look at Quebec: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Greece: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at France: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Portugal: multiple protests against austerity.
Look at Spain: multiple protests against austerity.

Balancing the budget is courage.  Doing what the protestors want is not.

People say that political memory is short but wow, the election campaign just ended and you are already able to produce a narrative which is so completely inconsistent with what actually occurred.  And you have probably convinced yourself you are correct.  I think I will leave you and Ancient Demon to rant for a while.

so, a vast majority of the worldwide population, especially in Canada, were in favour of austerity prior to the election.  I guess that explains the NDP eletion in Alberta.  I mean, they did ran a platform of cutting expenses to achieve zero deficit, right?

[viper37]

So, as expecter, 25 000 refugees this year is not nearly enough.
François Crépeau, the U.N. special rapporteur on the human rights of migrants, is asking Canada to grant 25 000 refugees per year for the next 5 years.
And by next year, he or someone else will tell us it's not enough.

[Ancient Demon]

If you were right the conservatives would have won in a landslide.

I said the conservative stance on those issues was popular, not that those were the issues that the electorate cared about the most. If they were, then yes it would have been a landslide. The great loss in support for the conservatives you envision just didn't happen, they actually gained from it. The election turned out the way it did because the liberals could pick up the pieces of the crumbling NDP.

[Ancient Demon]

They lost because Central Canada woke up.

I live in Manitoba, and apparently this part of Central Canada has been awake for a long time. When can we go back to sleep? 

[Oexmelin]

And by next year, he or someone else will tell us it's not enough.

I can tell you right now. It is not enough. It is not fucking enough.

[viper37]

And by next year, he or someone else will tell us it's not enough.

I can tell you right now. It is not enough. It is not fucking enough.

I know, if we want to make a difference, we need 200 000 refugees per year.
But, we can not support that many people unless we divert resources from elsewhere.

[Jacob]

And by next year, he or someone else will tell us it's not enough.

I can tell you right now. It is not enough. It is not fucking enough.

But it is a start.