[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Malthus]

THe arguments against pot legalization simply aren't very convincing. This seems to be one of those social-conservative hills to die on, with the usual indicia - slippery slope arguments, alleged impossibility of implementation, the US will hate us if we do it, etc.

Fact is that not much would change. The laws against pot are typically not actually enforced with any rigour in many places in Canada right now, and are riddled with legal exemptions ("medical marijuana"). So, logically, we ought to be experiencing all the downsides of legalization right now, too. What's the actual benefit of holding onto a largely symbolic law, that has largely been abandoned by police and public alike?

Controling drug use and addiction via criminalization is a basically failed policy, for "hard" and "soft" drugs alike. 

[Jacob]

just like legalizing alcohol and gambling destroyed organized crime, I suppose.

You suppose some silly things.

However, organized crime certainly profited significantly less from selling alcohol and facilitating gambling once those activities were legalized.

[Jacob]

Canadian gov't to save millions of dollars by not paying out pensions to snowbirds: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-border-security-benefits-seniors-1.3290299

I suppose it's pure coincidence that it came up right after the election.

[crazy canuck]

Florida is screwed

[Barrister]

Canadian gov't to save millions of dollars by not paying out pensions to snowbirds: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-border-security-benefits-seniors-1.3290299

I suppose it's pure coincidence that it came up right after the election.

I would imagine it is.

A summer 2014 memo, recently released under the Access to Information Act, says savings can be expected through "preventing abuse and eligibility fraud" with respect to the employment insurance, old age security and child tax benefit programs by ensuring Canadian residency requirements are fulfilled.

So the entire source of this story is this 2014 memo which was only recently released.  The policy of not paying pensions to people who live outside the country is ancient - it's just that new technology is better able to track when people come and go, and thus better able to catch people who cheat.

Hey, the couple of snowbirds I know are very, very careful about not hitting the 183 day mark.  If people are going over and still claiming benefits from Canada then they deserve to get caught.

[viper37]

You suppose some silly things.

Or I was sarcastic.

However, organized crime certainly profited significantly less from selling alcohol and facilitating gambling once those activities were legalized.

Yes.  They went in part legit, and in part moved on to other things:
- alcohol contraband, cheaper than the regulated stuff
- cigarette contraband, cheaper than the regulated stuff
- illegal forms of alcohol
- illegal gambling with less restrictions than regulated gambling (and they kinda built Las Vegas to launder their money, which goes to my first point)
- illegal drugs
- illegal weapons sales
- prostitution, legal or otherwise

Sorry, don't see much of change in criminal behavior.  There will always be something we judge dangerous that will be illegal and there will always be someone to sell it.  The day they make bacon illegal, people are gonna buy it on the black market

[viper37]

THe arguments against pot legalization simply aren't very convincing.

It's as dangerous as tobacco for the lungs, it increases the chances of developping mental illness and you can't prevent pot users from driving while impaired.

Fact is that not much would change. The laws against pot are typically not actually enforced with any rigour in many places in Canada right now, and are riddled with legal exemptions ("medical marijuana"). So, logically, we ought to be experiencing all the downsides of legalization right now, too.

Then there is no problem, so let's leave it that way.

What's the actual benefit of holding onto a largely symbolic law, that has largely been abandoned by police and public alike?

Tobacco.  It is a nocive product (like all forms of smoke) and we're having a really tough time controlling its use.  We are moving slowly while the provinces assume the health costs.
By legalizing marijuana, the Feds are essentially shifting the health costs to the provinces.  Now that it's legal, its consumption will increase, just like it did in Colorado.  And it will not only be viewed as "cool" as it is now, but also totally safe because it's legal.  You are sending a very wrong message.

Controling drug use and addiction via criminalization is a basically failed policy, for "hard" and "soft" drugs alike. 

Then let's legalize everything.  No more forbidding anything.  No such things as controlled substance anymore.   Want that new drug that destroys your skin?  Look at your local Wal-Mart, it'll be there!

[viper37]

Canadian gov't to save millions of dollars by not paying out pensions to snowbirds: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-border-security-benefits-seniors-1.3290299

I suppose it's pure coincidence that it came up right after the election.

I guess tracking citizens is now okay.
I just can't imagine the backslash against a nazi state if the Cons had done that.

[Monoriu]

I also have a fundamental philosophical problem with outlawing a substance like marijuana but not alcohol, bacon or smoking.  It is essentially a victimless crime. 

[viper37]

It is essentially a victimless crime. 

No.

[Monoriu]

It is essentially a victimless crime. 

No.

I am willing to listen to your arguments if you are willing to provide them

[Habbaku]

Canadian gov't to save millions of dollars by not paying out pensions to snowbirds: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-border-security-benefits-seniors-1.3290299

I suppose it's pure coincidence that it came up right after the election.

Why the crackdown on this?  Why would the Canadian government care if their pensioners left the country, aside from them spending the money out of the country?

If someone has earned a pension, why is it not their's to dispose of as they see fit, where they see fit?

[Admiral Yi]

I don't get that either.

[Jacob]

I don't get that either.

Me neither.

Part of it is EI - employment insurance - which is predicated on you being in the country and looking for work.

For the others - the Canada Pension Plan and the Child Benefit - I believe they're basic entitlements with no reference to "having earned" it. So I presume the reason they have a residency requirement is to prevent people like Mono - and others who have citizenship but don't actually live in Canada - from collecting CPP and Child Benefit.

[Admiral Yi]

Me neither.

Part of it is EI - employment insurance - which is predicated on you being in the country and looking for work.

For the others - the Canada Pension Plan and the Child Benefit - I believe they're basic entitlements with no reference to "having earned" it. So I presume the reason they have a residency requirement is to prevent people like Mono - and others who have citizenship but don't actually live in Canada - from collecting CPP and Child Benefit.

Does this Canada Pension Plan have nothing to do with money you've paid in?  Is it just a pension people get for being Canadian (and living in Canada at least half the year)?