[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

We had Truth and Reconciliation not so long ago.  How many recommendations have been applied?

The report was just released this summer so it is not particularly surprising you have not seen significant change yet.  But all the Provinces have undertaken to implement the recommendations within their jurisdiction.  The Federal Liberals had campaigned on implementing them.  So I would put this in the column of a process that worked.

[Jacob]

We had Truth and Reconciliation not so long ago.  How many recommendations have been applied?

The report was just released this summer so it is not particularly surprising you have not seen significant change yet.  But all the Provinces have undertaken to implement the recommendations within their jurisdiction.  The Federal Liberals had campaigned on implementing them.  So I would put this in the column of a process that worked.

What are the key provisions being implemented, in your opinion?

[crazy canuck]

I think the key parts are the educational components.  Its a kind of inoculation against another assimilation attempt and all the horrors that go with it.  It will also provide a good vehicle for increased understanding of the various perspectives around other complex issues and a good vehicle for discussion and exchange of ideas which moves beyond the more confrontational models we have used in the past.

[Barrister]

Nice article about the potential pitfalls involved when you legalize marijuana:

Legalizing marijuana won't be easy for Trudeau, says Colorado regulator
'And it's going to cost more than you think,' prime minister-designate is told
The Canadian Press Posted: Oct 25, 2015 9:36 AM ET Last Updated: Oct 25, 2015 2:04 PM ET

Vancouver has roughly 100 marijuana shops, which are subject to licensing fees and restrictions on their locations.
Vancouver has roughly 100 marijuana shops, which are subject to licensing fees and restrictions on their locations. (CBC)

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A Colorado official has some sobering words of advice for prime minister-designate Justin Trudeau if he fulfils his promise to legalize pot in Canada.

"It's going to be a lot harder to implement than you think. It's going to take a lot longer to do it. And it's going to cost more than you think," said Lewis Koski, director of the state's Marijuana Enforcement Division.

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Trudeau's pledge to legalize pot: He may want to look south
Colorado is one of four U.S. states to fully legalize recreational bud. Their challenges — including how to regulate edibles like brownies and cookies and a rise in drug-impaired driving — could be instructive for Canada's incoming prime minister.

Among the questions Trudeau's government could grapple with are whether to allow people to grow pot at home or buy it in stores, and how much sales tax to charge.

In Colorado, adults over 21 can grow up to six plants at home, while those who buy recreational weed in stores pay 25 per cent sales tax on top of the regular 2.9 per cent sales tax.

The state has collected $141 million in taxes since storefront sales began in January 2014. But a portion of the tax earmarked for school construction projects has fallen short of a $40-million goal.

Edibles raise concerns

There's also the matter of how to regulate edible products, which often take the form of sweet treats that appeal to children or are so potent that adults easily overindulge.

Legalize Pot
Representatives from all four states that have legalized marijuana stress the importance of public engagement. (Pawel Dwulit/Canadian Press)

Two suicides and a murder committed by people who consumed edibles have caused alarm in Colorado. The state introduced new rules in February to require more explicit warnings on labels and offer companies incentives to produce lower-potency goods.

In Washington, nearly half of marijuana poisoning calls last year involved children. Packages on pot products can't use cartoon characters or bright colours, and must clearly mark each 10-milligram serving of THC, the chemical in pot that makes users feel high.

Day 6: Will the Liberal win mean a marijuana gold rush?
Washington pot law measures nanograms to catch impaired drivers
"It can't be especially appealing to children, which is admittedly a bit subjective. So each one of those products is actually submitted for review prior to going on the shelves," said Mikhail Carpenter of the Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board.

Impaired driving

Another area Canada will need to study is drug-impaired driving. While fatal crashes in Washington only increased slightly after legalization, the percentage of drivers involved in those crashes who tested positive for THC doubled — to 12 per cent in 2014 from 6 per cent in 2010.

There is no approved breath or saliva test in the U.S. or Canada to determine if someone recently consumed marijuana. In Washington, a blood test is the best available method to measure THC levels. The state's maximum is five nanograms of THC per millilitre of blood.

Washington police must obtain a judge-approved search warrant before bringing a driver to hospital for a blood test — a process that can take a couple hours. While marijuana remnants can stay in a person's system for days, active THC dissipates rapidly.

"That's why in a general traffic-stop situation, where say a person was smoking it as they were driving down the road, there's a time aspect where we want to try to get the test done as soon as possible," said Washington State Patrol Sgt. Brandon Villanti.

But questions remain about whether every person with active THC in their system is actually impaired by the drug. Lawyer John Conroy said medical patients who regularly use marijuana do not get high.

"Just measuring nanograms in your blood doesn't do it. That's what they do in Washington state and you're presumed to be impaired and it's irrebuttable."

Alaska and Oregon legalized pot last year and are in the midst of crafting new rules. Cynthia Franklin, director of Alaska's Alcoholic Beverage and Marijuana Control Boards, said lawmakers are under pressure to meet tight timelines and begin issuing licences in May.

Public input recommended

"It's a wild ride, and we've been through a lot of loops and twirls and stomach-churning drops," she said.

Representatives from all four states stressed the importance of public engagement. Oregon recently adopted its temporary requirements for marijuana licensees after a robust community debate.

"We don't have a bunch of controversy around our rules because we've been transparent and open," said Rob Patridge, chair of the Oregon Liquor Control Commission.

Patridge, also a district attorney, estimated about 75 per cent of medical marijuana grown in the state is currently going into the black market or being exported.

"We're hoping that the regulatory environment that we've put in place will attract those who want to participate in a legal market," he said.

"However, Oregon is way over-producing for its current population that could partake in marijuana. So, unless (legalization) is done on a nationwide level, we are certainly going to continue to have significant black market problems."

And if Trudeau wants to learn from Oregon, Patridge said he would welcome a visit.

"Tell him our door is open to him. We're happy to share with our neighbours to the north."​

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/trudeau-marijuana-colorado-1.3287747

See, I'm not the only one saying this opens up a bunch of complications when it comes to driving...

[Josephus]

See, I'm not the only one saying this opens up a bunch of complications when it comes to driving...

I been backing you up on that 

[crazy canuck]

"However, Oregon is way over-producing for its current population that could partake in marijuana. So, unless (legalization) is done on a nationwide level, we are certainly going to continue to have significant black market problems."

Ok, we are going to check that box.

Sounds like most of their problems originate in the jurisdictional problems of a State legalizing while the Federal level is at best uninvolved.  Here it will be the exact opposite.  The federal government will be able to legislate regarding all matters which arise - including laws for smoking and driving.

[Barrister]

"However, Oregon is way over-producing for its current population that could partake in marijuana. So, unless (legalization) is done on a nationwide level, we are certainly going to continue to have significant black market problems."

Ok, we are going to check that box.

Sounds like most of their problems originate in the jurisdictional problems of a State legalizing while the Federal level is at best uninvolved.  Here it will be the exact opposite.  The federal government will be able to legislate regarding all matters which arise - including laws for smoking and driving.

No, you still are going to have jurisdictional issues.

Federal jurisdiction over marijuana comes by it's criminal law jurisdiction.  Once you remove it from that sphere the feds still have some jurisdiction over it by regulating it as a drug, but most of the laws regulating alcohol and tobacco use are provincial.

Plus, you're still going to see marijuana "leakage" across the 49th parallel.  I'd hate to see that used as justification for the US to build Scott Walker's northern wall.

[crazy canuck]

I don't much care how each provinces decides it should be sold once the Federal regulations are met.

I also think the risk of a Northern Wall is minimal given the fact that American's already have access to States within the Union that can sell it legally.  That is why Oregon is over producing atm.  If Canadian producers can participate in that market legally and we get the economic spinoffs I am not to sure what the downside might be.  Although I think it will be shortlived.  Once Canada legalizes I think we will see more States legalize if for no other reason that people will begin to see it is bad public policy not to take advantage of the tax revenue.

[Barrister]

I don't much care how each provinces decides it should be sold once the Federal regulations are met.

I also think the risk of a Northern Wall is minimal given the fact that American's already have access to States within the Union that can sell it legally.  That is why Oregon is over producing atm.  If Canadian producers can participate in that market legally and we get the economic spinoffs I am not to sure what the downside might be.  Although I think it will be shortlived.  Once Canada legalizes I think we will see more States legalize if for no other reason that people will begin to see it is bad public policy not to take advantage of the tax revenue.

But feds can't regulate how marijuana is sold if they legalize it.  They can only regulate it as a drug - ensure safety and purity and the like.

If you want any controls on how it is to be sold (and I'm sure you do) you need Provincial action.  Which certainly can be done, but it just makes it complicated.

And tax revenues of legal pot are greatly oversold.  COlorado has gained $141 million over almost two years: but Colorado's annual state budget is 26.4 billion.

[crazy canuck]

I don't much care how each provinces decides it should be sold once the Federal regulations are met.

I also think the risk of a Northern Wall is minimal given the fact that American's already have access to States within the Union that can sell it legally.  That is why Oregon is over producing atm.  If Canadian producers can participate in that market legally and we get the economic spinoffs I am not to sure what the downside might be.  Although I think it will be shortlived.  Once Canada legalizes I think we will see more States legalize if for no other reason that people will begin to see it is bad public policy not to take advantage of the tax revenue.

But feds can't regulate how marijuana is sold if they legalize it.  They can only regulate it as a drug - ensure safety and purity and the like.

If you want any controls on how it is to be sold (and I'm sure you do) you need Provincial action.  Which certainly can be done, but it just makes it complicated.

And tax revenues of legal pot are greatly oversold.  COlorado has gained $141 million over almost two years: but Colorado's annual state budget is 26.4 billion.

Like I said, I don't much care how the Provinces regulate it once the feds legalize it.  Just as I don't care whether Quebec sells alcohol in grocery stores (at least I think they do) I don't care how Quebec might decide the best way to sell pot might be.  I have a good idea how BC will do it and we have learned a lot about the dont's from the proliferation of medical marijuana shops.  I am not sure how gaining 141 million more than they had before is a bad thing since the product is going to be used whether it is legalized or not.  Much better to have the revenue than not.   

[viper37]

I don't much care how each provinces decides it should be sold once the Federal regulations are met.

Easy.  Société de la Marijuana du Québec where the product will be sold at 105% profit margin + sales tax.
And just like tobacco and alcohol, we will never hear of any illegal trade.  Because if it were to exists, than the while Liberal financial plan for the next 4 years would crumble, and that would be impossible, because it would mean Conservatives voters were right all along.

I also think the risk of a Northern Wall is minimal given the fact that American's already have access to States within the Union that can sell it legally. 

that is the least of my concerns.  Roaming stoners with an average intelligence less of these nameless characters on The Walking Dead is what concerns me.

[Grey Fox]

So that means it should remain illegal?!

[viper37]

Like I said, I don't much care how the Provinces regulate it once the feds legalize it.  Just as I don't care whether Quebec sells alcohol in grocery stores (at least I think they do)

most beers and cheap wines.  Some specific import beers are sold in government store (similar to Liquor Store).  I don't know the rules regarding beers, I think it's a percentage of alcohol, I'd have to check.  Belgian and German Beer with 8-9% alcohol are sold in grocery stores and some strong Molson beer (12-14%, IIRC, I haven't drank that in years) are sold too.
With wine, it's simple.  Anything that can be drunk without making you sick as to be sold by the gov't monopoly.
Strong alcohols and liquors are sold exclusively there too.
There are talks of privatization and liberalization in the air, but they come&go every decade or so.

[Barrister]

I don't much care how each provinces decides it should be sold once the Federal regulations are met.

I also think the risk of a Northern Wall is minimal given the fact that American's already have access to States within the Union that can sell it legally.  That is why Oregon is over producing atm.  If Canadian producers can participate in that market legally and we get the economic spinoffs I am not to sure what the downside might be.  Although I think it will be shortlived.  Once Canada legalizes I think we will see more States legalize if for no other reason that people will begin to see it is bad public policy not to take advantage of the tax revenue.

But feds can't regulate how marijuana is sold if they legalize it.  They can only regulate it as a drug - ensure safety and purity and the like.

If you want any controls on how it is to be sold (and I'm sure you do) you need Provincial action.  Which certainly can be done, but it just makes it complicated.

And tax revenues of legal pot are greatly oversold.  COlorado has gained $141 million over almost two years: but Colorado's annual state budget is 26.4 billion.

Like I said, I don't much care how the Provinces regulate it once the feds legalize it.  Just as I don't care whether Quebec sells alcohol in grocery stores (at least I think they do) I don't care how Quebec might decide the best way to sell pot might be.  I have a good idea how BC will do it and we have learned a lot about the dont's from the proliferation of medical marijuana shops.  I am not sure how gaining 141 million more than they had before is a bad thing since the product is going to be used whether it is legalized or not.  Much better to have the revenue than not.

Yeah, but the point is you still need to co-ordinate with 13 separate jurisdictions to make sure they do regulate it in some meaningful fashion, and to make sure those regulations are in place by the time of legalization.

[crazy canuck]

Sure, the Provinces have to have time to put their laws in place so its going to take some time to roll out.  But that is not a good argument against going through the process of doing it.  Much like a lot of such law there is going to be a lot of copying from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.  Its not going to be all that arduous.