[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

What exactly is he supposed to do?  Obama is faced with a Republican congress.  He's gotten nothing passed into legislation.

What Trudeau is now doing 

I say this not to fault him (he hasn't even been sworn in yet) but he hasn't actually done anything yet.

[Jacob]

What exactly is he supposed to do?  Obama is faced with a Republican congress.  He's gotten nothing passed into legislation.

What Trudeau is now doing 

I say this not to fault him (he hasn't even been sworn in yet) but he hasn't actually done anything yet.

I don't know if I agree with that... setting the tone and the agenda are significant components of leadership, and that's what he's doing so far. Of course, ultimately delivering is more important, but that's further down the road.

[Josephus]

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

Wait... are you in favour of more concerted action on climate change?

For sure.

But so did Harper, and I thought he took a responsible approach.  It wasn't that "climate change isn't an issue".  It was instead "unilateral action by Canada is meaningless".  I'm definitely in favour of a comprehensive global fight on carbon emissions.

But that's like saying "I'm not going to recycle because my neighbour doesn't." Unilateral action is not meaningless. Just because everyone else pollutes doesn't mean we need to.

[viper37]

You are making a presumption without any evidence.

The past is never a guarantee of the future, but it usually gives a pretty good picture.  Especially when the same people are concerned.

[viper37]

It seemed to me that Harper's approach was "we won't bother doing anything at all until the entire rest of the world decide to agree to our specific standards, and in the meantime we'll stay away from engaging the rest of the world in a meaningful way."

yes, it was a silly position.  The same position the NDP had on the war in Syria and Irak, btw: "Not our problem, let others do it, then we'll see."
And it's silly in both cases.

Maybe that perception is wrong, but I'd be surprised if the Liberals' actions were less productive than that on the topic.

Well, the bar is quite low to do worst.

[Barrister]

But that's like saying "I'm not going to recycle because my neighbour doesn't." Unilateral action is not meaningless. Just because everyone else pollutes doesn't mean we need to.

No matter what anyone else says, reducing CO2 is not going to be easy or painless.  It will have a detrimental effect on our economy.  Why should we hobble our own economy if our much larger neighbor doesn't do the same?

I'm not talking about waiting for India to come on board.

[crazy canuck]

But that's like saying "I'm not going to recycle because my neighbour doesn't." Unilateral action is not meaningless. Just because everyone else pollutes doesn't mean we need to.

No matter what anyone else says, reducing CO2 is not going to be easy or painless.  It will have a detrimental effect on our economy.  Why should we hobble our own economy if our much larger neighbor doesn't do the same?

I'm not talking about waiting for India to come on board.

Some solutions that are not painful, in the sense that we have to do them anyway, for example, investing in mass transit infrastructure to get more people out of their cars.

[Jacob]

No matter what anyone else says, reducing CO2 is not going to be easy or painless.  It will have a detrimental effect on our economy.  Why should we hobble our own economy if our much larger neighbor doesn't do the same?

I'm not talking about waiting for India to come on board.

Bottom line, Harper sat on his hands and alternately made excuses or said nothing.

[Barrister]

I don't know if I agree with that... setting the tone and the agenda are significant components of leadership, and that's what he's doing so far. Of course, ultimately delivering is more important, but that's further down the road.

This sounds like a repeat of election talk.  You're impressed by tone and agenda.  I'm impressed by results.

[Jacob]

This sounds like a repeat of election talk.  You're impressed by tone and agenda.  I'm impressed by results.

Of which Harper delivered none in his 10 year tenure.

[Josephus]

This sounds like a repeat of election talk.  You're impressed by tone and agenda.  I'm impressed by results.

Of which Harper delivered none in his 10 year tenure.

Like balanced budgets. Oh wait, he did one.

[viper37]

But that's like saying "I'm not going to recycle because my neighbour doesn't." Unilateral action is not meaningless. Just because everyone else pollutes doesn't mean we need to.

No matter what anyone else says, reducing CO2 is not going to be easy or painless.  It will have a detrimental effect on our economy.  Why should we hobble our own economy if our much larger neighbor doesn't do the same?

I'm not talking about waiting for India to come on board.

reducing subsidies to oil companies would be the sensible and fiscally conservative thing to do.

[viper37]

This sounds like a repeat of election talk.  You're impressed by tone and agenda.  I'm impressed by results.

Of which Harper delivered none in his 10 year tenure.

Like balanced budgets. Oh wait, he did one.

all the budgets were balanced until 2008.  Than it became close to be balanced last year (a 3 billion$ provision led to a 2billion deficit).
Without raising any taxes or fees or cutting in provincial transfers.  Something the Libs were unable to do.  And I remember the Rae solution for Ontario, it took Mike Harris to bring back their heads above water.

[Jacob]

Re: the inquiry into missing and murdered Native women - when stories like this comes up - the deliberate deletion of records regarding the Highway of Tears - then I don't think a 20-year old commission report or promoting private land ownership on reserves are particularly relevant.

[viper37]

Re: the inquiry into missing and murdered Native women - when stories like this comes up - the deliberate deletion of records regarding the Highway of Tears - then I don't think a 20-year old commission report or promoting private land ownership on reserves are particularly relevant.

A 20 year old commission report did not prevent that from happenning.  How would a new one change anything, except for the lawyers getting overtime and politicians getting good will?