[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Comparing the intensity/activity in this thread with what is our American politics thread, I am getting the impression that Languish is really more of a Canadian forum than an American one. 

Except, perhaps, for sports...

One thing that continues to surprise me is that Canadians have absolutely no concept of party loyalty.  They just vote for whatever party they like at the moment.  They also have more than two valid parties to choose from, especially if that one in Quebec with a name that I can never pronounce is included.

Then you really haven't been paying attention.  BB is certainly an ideological stalwart of the Conservative party.  Rex is a passionate separatist without a good federal choice.  I could go on but you get the point.

[crazy canuck]

My riding made the list of the top 25 to watch in the country 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/the-25-key-ridings-to-watch-on-election-night/article26836451/?service=mobile

[Monoriu]

Comparing the intensity/activity in this thread with what is our American politics thread, I am getting the impression that Languish is really more of a Canadian forum than an American one. 

Except, perhaps, for sports...

One thing that continues to surprise me is that Canadians have absolutely no concept of party loyalty.  They just vote for whatever party they like at the moment.  They also have more than two valid parties to choose from, especially if that one in Quebec with a name that I can never pronounce is included.

Then you really haven't been paying attention.  BB is certainly an ideological stalwart of the Conservative party.  Rex is a passionate separatist without a good federal choice.  I could go on but you get the point.

I thought BB voted for someone other than the conservatives in the provincial election?

[viper37]

One thing that continues to surprise me is that Canadians have absolutely no concept of party loyalty. 

Some do, for a long while.
The Jewish community voted Liberal for a long while, until Harper's Conservatives came along.  Anglo-Montrealers still massively vote for the Liberals, except for Mulcair, but he's an ex-provincial liberal, and ex member of Alliance Quebec a defunct anglo nationalist party fighting against franco rights in their own provinces.  So, he's a natural choice.

[viper37]

The CBC did a piece showing varies Conservative Ministers in the recent past saying there was nothing wrong with wearing a Niqab.  I wonder what changed?  Did the conservatives find feminism or did they find polling numbers they thought they could exploit in a most cynical way?

they did not find feminism.  They found something they could exploit, as all political parties, and they realized that radical islam is a threat and must be contained to preserve peaceful relations with other muslim canadians, you know, the vast majority of them that looks bad when we tolerate integrists.

[viper37]

The rest of the article is pure sillyness.  The law only applies to terrorists.  Not a terrorist?  Not a problem.  It is expected, in some societies, that when you commit crimes, there are consequences, one of which is that you lose some basic guarantees to ordinary citizens would enjoy (ex: right to privacy, right to freely move within the country, etc).  It's just one more thing.

We;'ve had this argument before, and the general consensus is you're wrong on this. There shouldn't be a difference between what you call an "ordinary citizen" and me, one who was naturalized when he was 14.

It's hard to keep track, but if I did employ "ordinary citizen", it only means law-abidding citizen.  I do not care where you were born, when you were naturalized.  I do not care that you have dual citizenship.  You are equal as everyone in front of the law.  Except if you use your dual citizenship to commit crimes against the country.  Then it's only fair that Canada acts.

I must however note, that, Michaëlle Jean had to renounce her dual citizenship to become GG.  Jack Layton, your former leader, asked Stéphane Dion to renounce his dual citizenship to become PM and Mulcair had to promise the same in case he got elected as Prime Minister.  I'm trying to find the outrage in the Globe&Mail, but I can't.  Maybe you guys will help me?

[Josephus]

So....this could be big. The Jays are playing Game 3 on Election Day. This can significantly affect voter turnout, especially in the GTA. This could help out Harper.

[crazy canuck]

I thought BB voted for someone other than the conservatives in the provincial election?

I see your confusion.  In some provinces (maybe just BC and Alberta?) there is no direct connection between the Federal and Provincial parties.  There is no Conservative party of Alberta.  There is a Progressive Conservative party which used to be the same thing as the old Federal PC party but that federal party no longer exists.  The Federal Conservative party is an amalgamation of the old PC party and the Reform party (or whatever their name was when the merger occurred).

So BB was voting for the most conservative party in the province which was the Wild Rose party.  It was entirely consistent for him to do so given his ideological beliefs.

[crazy canuck]

So....this could be big. The Jays are playing Game 3 on Election Day. This can significantly affect voter turnout, especially in the GTA. This could help out Harper.

I was thinking the same thing 

Although the game starts about the time the polls close in Ontario.  The big issue is going to be out West.  There are going to be a lot of younger voters hitting the pubs early to watch the game at the cost of getting to the polling booth.  The joke around here is that if you want to avoid the lineups just go vote after the game starts.

[crazy canuck]

The CBC did a piece showing varies Conservative Ministers in the recent past saying there was nothing wrong with wearing a Niqab.  I wonder what changed?  Did the conservatives find feminism or did they find polling numbers they thought they could exploit in a most cynical way?

they did not find feminism.  They found something they could exploit, as all political parties, and they realized that radical islam is a threat and must be contained to preserve peaceful relations with other muslim canadians, you know, the vast majority of them that looks bad when we tolerate integrists.

Its funny that you still say that a woman who chooses for herself to wear a Niqab is a radical islamist.   

You might want to reflect on the fact that this kind of overblown hyperbole distracts people from identifying what you might more reasonably consider a radical.

But I thank you for these discussions.  Your views helped me determine how serious the harm might be if the policies the conservatives were proposing were actually enacted.

[Barrister]

I thought BB voted for someone other than the conservatives in the provincial election?

I see your confusion.  In some provinces (maybe just BC and Alberta?) there is no direct connection between the Federal and Provincial parties.  There is no Conservative party of Alberta.  There is a Progressive Conservative party which used to be the same thing as the old Federal PC party but that federal party no longer exists.  The Federal Conservative party is an amalgamation of the old PC party and the Reform party (or whatever their name was when the merger occurred).

So BB was voting for the most conservative party in the province which was the Wild Rose party.  It was entirely consistent for him to do so given his ideological beliefs.

Well that's the thing.  I'm an ideological partisan, NOT a party loyalist.  I've mentioned it before, but here's the list of parties I've voted for in the past:

Progressive Conservative
Reform
Canadian Alliance
Conservative
Libertarian (the only vote I regret)
Yukon Party
Wildrose Party

You can call me a lot of things, but party loyalist is not among them. 

[Maximus]

One thing that continues to surprise me is that Canadians have absolutely no concept of party loyalty.  They just vote for whatever party they like at the moment.  They also have more than two valid parties to choose from, especially if that one in Quebec with a name that I can never pronounce is included.

Party loyalty isn't a positive. "My party, right or wrong" is inherently anti-democratic.

[Malthus]

It is true though that Canadians tend to display less party loyalty than Americans.

In Canada at least, at the federal level, there seems to be a trend for the two major parties to in effect tag-team long-term dominance, each ruling until the ruling party gets so worn out, corrupt, out of touch, cynically manipulative, etc. that a groundswell of angry 'throw the bums out' gains prominence, the ruling party is pared down to its core supporters (which isn't enough typically to win), and the other party gains enough at their expense to form the new dynasty. The old ruling party is cast into the political wilderness until it is purged of its sins and the new ruling party accumulates the exact same sins as the old.

We may well be seeing that here in this election - at least, that's what it looks like to me. The major upset was that, at least early on, it looked like the NDP were going to muscle into this relationship and rudely shoulder the Libs aside. Now it looks like that will not happen. I suspect we are in for a period of dynastic change.

[crazy canuck]

Progressive Conservative

Ok, but then you only had the Liberals and the NDP as non fringe parties to choose from

Reform
Canadian Alliance

The same thing

Conservative

the only thing you were left with after the Reform party merged



Libertarian (the only vote I regret)

We will move on without comment


Yukon Party
Wildrose Party


Provincial parties that have no Federal counterpart - proving my point 

[Valmy]

Wanting to send your kids to a school that schedules holidays according to the holidays of your faith and culture, and with social studies and language classes that has more of a focus on your background than on the Christian derived mainstream does not make you an extremist.

No but it does make you the kind of immigrant many cultures do not want moving into their territory.

Many cultures do not want others of different cultures because they are at best intolerant.

I think that is rather judgmental. I, obviously, disagree with these sentiments. Globalization is changing the world in a big way. The free movement of culture, ideas, goods, services, and people are radically changing everything and this will only accelerate. Trying to keep these local cultures intact is a fools errand IMO. My opinion has always been to simply let nature take her course, we will all be better for it in the end.

But I also do not understand why it is a moral imperative to do so. Last I checked defending your culture was not considered an entirely evil motivation.

Which is exactly what I said Viper was.  Although after reading the rest of his posts I think I may have been a bit lenient on him.

Yeah he is going to places that it is not necessary to go.