[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Viper, your post is more evidence the Conservatives are pandering to the intolerant extreme in our country.  Tip lines, banning harmless dress,  etc.

BB can you in good conscience continue to support this kind of mean spirited cynical politics?

[Barrister]

Viper, your post is more evidence the Conservatives are pandering to the intolerant extreme in our country.  Tip lines, banning harmless dress,  etc.

BB can you in good conscience continue to support this kind of mean spirited cynical politics?

To which do you refer?

The tip line is silly of course - if you learn of people practicing "barbaric cultural practices" you should call 911.  But taking a stand against things such as female genital mutilation is not.

Niqab's at citizenship ceremonies is also silly - see the "two women" comments.  But certainly the niqab is far from harmless as well - it's deeply misogynistic.

And to support Harper over Trudeau?  My conscience is very clean on that front.   

[Monoriu]

Politicians have positions on hundreds of issues.  I will be lucky if my favourite politician agrees with me on, say, 60% of them.  What about the rest?  I overlook them.  Frankly, the clothes and anti-terror laws and such don't seem to apply to too many situations.  If Stephen Harper says I can't wear Chinese traditional clothing during funerals, I'd be annoyed but it is no big deal.  I will curse him, then obey his laws and vote for him. 

[viper37]

Viper, your post is more evidence the Conservatives are pandering to the intolerant extreme in our country.  Tip lines, banning harmless dress,  etc.

Ah, I am part of the intolerant extreme now.  News to me.

The niqab/burqa is not a harmless dress.  It is a symbol of radical islam, it is a tool to keep a part of the population in place.  It poisons the life of non radical muslims by pressuring them to adopt the same symbols and way of life.  It gives a bad example to young muslims by presenting this as the only way to be a good muslim.

The tipline is another matter, it's beyond silly.  But I still have no alternatives to the Cons.  You are voting for a francophobic party that exacerbates tensions between Quebec and the other provinces, and it doesn't give you any kind of troubles.  Yet, I am part of the intolerant extreme now.  Try listening to moderate muslims for a change.  They are the ones calling people like Mulcair and Trudeau naive.  They are the ones asking for help, and we just shut themselves up  by tolerating extremist behaviour. 

Other countries have been very laxed, very tolerant toward extremists, and now they're the ones with the problems.  No way I want my country to become like that.  No way I want a right-wing reactionary movement to get ground and target all immigrants because we refused to act toward extremists.  And again, it's silly fighting against the Talibans and ISIS if we're just allowing the same ideas to propagate here. At least Mulcair admitted he doesn't care about anyone over there by saying it wasn't our business.  He is consequent, radical islam is the lesser of two evil between that and capitalism for his party.

[crazy canuck]

Viper, your post is more evidence the Conservatives are pandering to the intolerant extreme in our country.  Tip lines, banning harmless dress,  etc.

BB can you in good conscience continue to support this kind of mean spirited cynical politics?

To which do you refer?

The tip line is silly of course - if you learn of people practicing "barbaric cultural practices" you should call 911.  But taking a stand against things such as female genital mutilation is not.

Niqab's at citizenship ceremonies is also silly - see the "two women" comments.  But certainly the niqab is far from harmless as well - it's deeply misogynistic.

And to support Harper over Trudeau?  My conscience is very clean on that front.   

Do you honestly think the conservative pandering has anything to do with an attempt to stop female genital mutilation? 

I suppose the conservatives need this kind of cognitive dissonance to stay in power.

[crazy canuck]

Viper, your post is more evidence the Conservatives are pandering to the intolerant extreme in our country.  Tip lines, banning harmless dress,  etc.

Ah, I am part of the intolerant extreme now.  News to me.

Someone had to tell you. There appears to be an echo chamber in Quebec that thinks picking on a vulnerable minority is ok. 

[Valmy]

Someone had to tell you. There appears to be an echo chamber in Quebec that thinks picking on a vulnerable minority is ok. 

You just do not get their point of view, or do but are just do not consider it worth anything. They are trying to protect their culture. And they are absolutely right, immigration will change a culture. The defense mechanism is to try to enforce integration. Sort of like sticking your fingers in a dike.

[Grey Fox]

How do you resolve the misogynistic thing tho?

[viper37]

Someone had to tell you. There appears to be an echo chamber in Quebec that thinks picking on a vulnerable minority is ok. 

We're not picking on vulnerable minorities.  But some people have understood that, as strange as it may sounds, some "liberties" have to be restrained to allow the free expression of thoughts and ideas.  We have rules against hate speech, that is a restraint against individual freedom.  We have rules on what types of guns you are allowed to own, so as to allow moderates to use their guns as they please during their favourite hobbies. We also have laws that restrict the freedoms of hunters so everyone can enjoy their sport.  Are we a liberticide country?

Now, it ain't even about immigration, it's about integration to our culture, and it's about fighting religious extremists.  Religious extremists are no more a "vulnerable minority" than KKK members.  Yet, we don't protect the rights of neo-nazis in this country.  But we should be tolerant of islamo-fascists and jewish extremists... for what reason, exactly?  Saying you niggers need to learn their place is hate speech.  Saying women need to learn their place is expressing vulnerability? What kind of fucked up thoughts are these??

[viper37]

Someone had to tell you. There appears to be an echo chamber in Quebec that thinks picking on a vulnerable minority is ok. 

You just do not get their point of view, or do but are just do not consider it worth anything. They are trying to protect their culture. And they are absolutely right, immigration will change a culture. The defense mechanism is to try to enforce integration. Sort of like sticking your fingers in a dike.

Right now, it's not even about immigration.  It's about fighting radicalization in this country.  It's about not opening our borders to terrorists and agents of radicalization, no more than we would have allowed communist agent during the Cold War.  Around this time, someone cornered the expression "useful idiots" and it applies to people like CC.  Under cover of protecting "vulnerable minorities" (what bullshit is this??), they are allowing extremists to flourish here while we fight them overseas.  Might as well line up all muslims for the slaughter, it will be a quicker way to die for them than le supplice de la goutte inflicted on them by the Liberals and the NDP.

If immigrants or any citizen is unable to adapt to our freedom and tries to use them against us, and against the real vulnerable minorities, the moderates of their community, we should not give any tolerance to these people.

[crazy canuck]

How do you resolve the misogynistic thing tho?

If there was some evidence that these policies were only directed at protecting women from misogyny then my view would be different.  But there is no evidence that the woman who wanted to wear her headgear at the swearing in ceremony was coerced in any way.  All the evidence is this was a choice she made for herself.  There is no evidence any women have ever tried to wear it while working for the federal public service.  There is no evidence that an anti Canadian tip line to inform as to "barbaric cultural practices" is in any way necessary.  Although, if there was such a tip line the Conservative stance on this issue should be the first thing to be reported. 

Trudeau said yesterday that he didn't have to convince many conservatives to leave the conservative party.  His point is that the conservative party has already left them.  He was right.  I have no idea how, especially ex reform types like BB, can support a government that thinks these sorts of intrusions into the personal affairs of citizens is the role of government.  These sorts of policies are far removed from the party I once supported and the kind of Canada I wish to live in.

Also, as Viper points out, this has nothing to do with misogyny.  It has everything to do with cultural differences that many in Quebec are too xenophobic to allow.  That might play fine in the realm of Quebec politics where being racist in the name of protecting Quebec culture plays well.  But when a party tries that sort of thing on the national stage it is exposed for what it is.  Ugly race based politics targeting a vulnerable cultural, racial and religious minority to create a wedge issue to get re-elected.  It appears to have backfired and I am thankful for that.

[Valmy]

That might play fine in the realm of Quebec politics where being racist in the name of protecting Quebec culture plays well.

Those inferior subhumans of Quebec, amiright? Hiding their monstrous barbarous ways behind the lie they care about their culture.

[garbon]

That might play fine in the realm of Quebec politics where being racist in the name of protecting Quebec culture plays well.

Those inferior subhumans of Quebec, amiright? Hiding their monstrous barbarous ways behind the lie they care about their culture.

If most people in Quebec actually cared, I think they could be better prepared to protect it. Not like they are a tiny village.

[Valmy]

If most people in Quebec actually cared, I think they could be better prepared to protect it. Not like they are a tiny village.

Not sure what you mean. They seem like they care alot, with all their language laws and all that. Being paranoid their culture is being destroyed is their thing. Don't get the village thing.

[Grey Fox]

It is not racism, it is anti-clericalism.