[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

It is the country we have now

Only since 1982, and religious extremis is on the rise since then.
And then people are shocked when some MPs think the Flintstones are a documentary.

Exactly what I am concerned about.

Forcing your wife, your sister, your daughter to be covered from head to toe, to remove her from society, that is extremist behavior.
Submitting kids to corporal punishment in the name of good education, that is extremist behavior.
Teaching religion as science, that is extremist behavior.
And that is stuff I don't want here.  I know it's there.  I know it's either legal or tolerated in the name of religious freedom.  Then we act all surprised when girls are killed so save the family honour.  This is what it leads to.  And I don't want this in the country I live in.
Harper made some very good steps on this way in the past, but he needs to go further.
The Libs simply want to pander to all kind of extremists hoping it diminishes Quebec nationalism.  They'd openly support terrorists if they thought it would bring them a majority in the parliament and help them crush Quebec.

[Barrister]

Its the mean cynicism that has turned my vote.  I have always thought of Harper as a prudent careful person.  I have to think this has more to do with the Aussie guy they brought in to run the campaign and that he doesn't have a good sense of how this might play outside Quebec.  But in any event the fact they have gone down this road has lost my support.

I guess to me an election campaign has never changed my mind, and this one is no different.

The niqab issue is pandering, pure and simple.  I understand why they do it, though I have zero issue with someone wanting to wear the thing during a purely symbolic ceremony,  But it has nothing to do with how I'll vote.

What matters is a party's philosophy of governance.  And I'll take the Conservative philosophy any day of the week over Liberal empty centrism and the NDP's union-driven leftism.

[crazy canuck]

I agree, it is the philosophy of governance that matters.  I have come to the conclusion that pandering to the worst instincts we have just to get votes in Quebec is consistent with the conservative crime bills, bills to increase surveillance without proper oversight, and a bill to remove citizenship from Canadians.   It is really the last straw for me.

[Valmy]

Sorry BB going after the Niqab, even if it is bullshit, is kind of a dick move. It stinks of a Croatian politician announcing the outlawing of Serbians. Except the Croatians would be more justified.

[crazy canuck]

It is the country we have now

Only since 1982, and religious extremis is on the rise since then.
And then people are shocked when some MPs think the Flintstones are a documentary.

Exactly what I am concerned about.

Forcing your wife, your sister, your daughter to be covered from head to toe, to remove her from society, that is extremist behavior.
Submitting kids to corporal punishment in the name of good education, that is extremist behavior.
Teaching religion as science, that is extremist behavior.
And that is stuff I don't want here.  I know it's there.  I know it's either legal or tolerated in the name of religious freedom.  Then we act all surprised when girls are killed so save the family honour.  This is what it leads to.  And I don't want this in the country I live in.
Harper made some very good steps on this way in the past, but he needs to go further.
The Libs simply want to pander to all kind of extremists hoping it diminishes Quebec nationalism.  They'd openly support terrorists if they thought it would bring them a majority in the parliament and help them crush Quebec.

One day you will hopefully understand that the stereotype you have of Canadian Muslims is deeply flawed.

In the meantime I will not support a political party that panders to it.

[Monoriu]

As someone who does have duel Canadian and UK citizenship, I really don't mind if the Canadian government tells me that my Canadian citizenship will be stripped if I commit terrorist acts.  It is a different matter if I lose it for illegal parking though 

[Grey Fox]

I agree with Viper that we shouldn't let relgious extremist run our country, any country. However, none of the 3 parties is going to do anything about it. The niquad, while unacceptable, is not a problem nor really extreme.

Muslims have almost won a war we didn't know it was started.

[Josephus]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."

This latest nonsense has solidified my vote but certainly not in the way the Conservatives may have hoped.  When I reflect on my concerns about Justin being PM and the possible dumb things he might do, I consider the actual harmful things the present government is doing.

[Josephus]

The conservatives are now promising they will do something not only stupid but harmful to the kind of country I want to live in.

I hope that country you want to live in never comes by.  A country ruled by extremists, able to impose their laws by perverting our democracy? No f*way.
Then again, the Cons have no real intentions of doing anything about it.

what are you on about? Harper's been doing all along.

[viper37]

I have come to the conclusion that pandering to the worst instincts we have just to get votes in Quebec

When this kind of debate was only in Quebec, Canadians thought we were racists.  Francophobia running as high as usual in national medias.  Muclair misinterpreted this "cultural opening" for Canadian values.  Quebec bashing was the core canadian value in that case.  Now that the debate has surfaced outside of Quebec, it seems Harper's rise has been as big in English Canada as in Quebec.

Looking at the polls from Sept 16th to today, the Cons made gains everywhere in Canada but in BC.  The Bloc has made the most gains, surging from 13% to over 20%.  NDP support peaked in August, it's been dropping ever since, faster since Sept 16th.  So yeah, it's an issue in Quebec, but so it is everywhere else in Canada.  Otherwise the Cons would be dropping like flies everywhere else.

[viper37]

One day you will hopefully understand that the stereotype you have of Canadian Muslims is deeply flawed.

I do not have any stereotype of Canadian Muslims.  You mistake me for Grallon.

I am, however, absolutely, resolutely against religious extremism.  I disagree with religious schools teaching creationism.  I don't care if it's Evangelical, Jewish Orthodox or Muslim, I don't want this shit in my country.  I'd much prefer to live in a secular State where the head of country is not a religious figure from oversea.  I want Muslims, Christians, Jews, people from all origins to grow as Canadian citizens freely, without undue pressure from the fanatics in their ranks.  I will not play the game of religious extremists.  Hiding your wife, sister, cousin, whatever behind a full veil to substract her from society has nothing to be with Islam.

We can't be fighting ISIS and Al-Queida abroad, pride ourselves in protecting women's rights in Afghanistan while letting extremists have their day over here.

If a man, any man, insists that his women need to be covered, if he listens to a religious figure telling him women needs physical correction, he's fucking free to leave the country because he's pissed off we won't let him do it.

Lots of muslims, the majority of them want to live peacefully and integrate to our society. These extremists you pander to will not let them.  They will pressure their community to adopt their way, they will intimidate people in doing so, they will have their own religious schools preaching their own backward form of religion, the one we're fighting abroad.  It's already starting and we need to act now rather than wait for the problem to be unmanageable.

[viper37]

what are you on about? Harper's been doing all along.

I haven't seen him doing anything to cull the religious crazies.

[viper37]

It is a different matter if I lose it for illegal parking though 

Shouldn't be a problem for someone who does not own a car

[Josephus]

Latest polls show a slight Liberal lead. Could be an interesting two-way run now.

[Malthus]

I have come to the conclusion that pandering to the worst instincts we have just to get votes in Quebec

When this kind of debate was only in Quebec, Canadians thought we were racists.  Francophobia running as high as usual in national medias.  Muclair misinterpreted this "cultural opening" for Canadian values.  Quebec bashing was the core canadian value in that case.  Now that the debate has surfaced outside of Quebec, it seems Harper's rise has been as big in English Canada as in Quebec.

Looking at the polls from Sept 16th to today, the Cons made gains everywhere in Canada but in BC.  The Bloc has made the most gains, surging from 13% to over 20%.  NDP support peaked in August, it's been dropping ever since, faster since Sept 16th.  So yeah, it's an issue in Quebec, but so it is everywhere else in Canada.  Otherwise the Cons would be dropping like flies everywhere else.

The main reason for this Con move was I think to wipe out the NDP lead in Quebec. Outside of Quebec, the main beneficiary has been the Libs, who have over the course of the campaign pulled up neck and neck with the Cons. 

I agree with CC that it is a cynical electioneering move. It remains to be seen if it pays off for them. I suspect that the Cons are gambling that people in Quebec care enough about this issue to drop the NDP, and are unlikely to vote Liberal, while people in the RoC don't really care enough about the issue to switch votes (well, obviously they are wrong in the case of CC!  ).

For myself, I totally disapprove of this move, I think it is pandering, incencere, plays to nativist Canadian bigotry, and will (and is intended) to have basically no actual impact. I can totally understand why CC intends to switch votes. However, for me, as stated upthread before any of this begain, it doesn't really change my impression of Harper (as a heartless bastard), and it doesn't change the point that I am unwilling to vote based on essentially symbolic election issues, however dire.