[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Not a wise thing to say in a campaign for sure...although it's a noble statement.

As an immigrant myself, and one who paid some $50 for my citizenship, upon becoming Canadian I was given all the rights and priviledges of citizenship. If I engage in terrorism, I expect to be treated the same way as a natural-born, --or what's the term now-- old-stock, Canadian. Put me in jail for ever, if necessary; but deportation is wrong.

if you have double citizenship, I think it's faire.  I would do the same to natural born canadian, but that'd be against some international law or something.

[Barrister]

Not a wise thing to say in a campaign for sure...although it's a noble statement.

As an immigrant myself, and one who paid some $50 for my citizenship, upon becoming Canadian I was given all the rights and priviledges of citizenship. If I engage in terrorism, I expect to be treated the same way as a natural-born, --or what's the term now-- old-stock, Canadian. Put me in jail for ever, if necessary; but deportation is wrong.

if you have double citizenship, I think it's faire.  I would do the same to natural born canadian, but that'd be against some international law or something.

Yeah.  I'd love to dump anyone, sole or dual citizen, at the border after they've served their sentence, but I understand why it can only be done to dual citizens.

[crazy canuck]

Tell me.  What is the difference between a Canadian citizen and a Canadian citizen?

[Valmy]

Stupid international laws.

[Barrister]

Tell me.  What is the difference between a Canadian citizen and a Canadian citizen?

When one also has citizenship to another country?

[Valmy]

Hey the US never signed on to the international laws so we are free to make all the stateless people we want! USA! USA! USA!

[crazy canuck]

Tell me.  What is the difference between a Canadian citizen and a Canadian citizen?

When one also has citizenship to another country?

Does that make them any less a citizen of Canada?  How else might we create degrees of citizenship so that we can get rid of others we deem undeserving?

Earlier you said you thought this was a no brainer.  In fact this might cost the conservatives some votes outside their core support.  But not in Quebec which is perhaps why they are doing this.

[Valmy]

Does that make them any less a citizen of Canada?  How else might we create degrees of citizenship so that we can get rid of others we deem undeserving?

Yes I think somebody who is the mortal enemy of the United States and works tirelessly for its destruction and the death of its people is less a citizen of the US than ones who do not. Color me a right wing reactionary who shits all over human rights but there we are.

[Barrister]

Tell me.  What is the difference between a Canadian citizen and a Canadian citizen?

When one also has citizenship to another country?

Does that make them any less a citizen of Canada?  How else might we create degrees of citizenship so that we can get rid of others we deem undeserving?

Earlier you said you thought this was a no brainer.  In fact this might cost the conservatives some votes outside their core support.  But not in Quebec which is perhaps why they are doing this.

I predict this will not cost the Conservatives any meaningful support.

[crazy canuck]

Does that make them any less a citizen of Canada?  How else might we create degrees of citizenship so that we can get rid of others we deem undeserving?

Yes I think somebody who is the mortal enemy of the United States and works tirelessly for its destruction and the death of its people is less a citizen of the US than ones who do not. Color me a right wing reactionary who shits all over human rights but there we are.

We were talking about someone who has a dual citizenship being less of a citizen     It is easy to miss the issue when one gets worked up like that.

[crazy canuck]

Tell me.  What is the difference between a Canadian citizen and a Canadian citizen?

When one also has citizenship to another country?

Does that make them any less a citizen of Canada?  How else might we create degrees of citizenship so that we can get rid of others we deem undeserving?

Earlier you said you thought this was a no brainer.  In fact this might cost the conservatives some votes outside their core support.  But not in Quebec which is perhaps why they are doing this.

I predict this will not cost the Conservatives any meaningful support.

Your predictions have cost you beer in the past. 

Its a wedge issue.  And like any wedge issue they are going to lose some and gain some.  They have made the judgment they will gain more then they lose.  We will never know which way that will work out.

[Malthus]

Tell me.  What is the difference between a Canadian citizen and a Canadian citizen?

When one also has citizenship to another country?

Does that make them any less a citizen of Canada?  How else might we create degrees of citizenship so that we can get rid of others we deem undeserving?

Earlier you said you thought this was a no brainer.  In fact this might cost the conservatives some votes outside their core support.  But not in Quebec which is perhaps why they are doing this.

I predict this will not cost the Conservatives any meaningful support.

Your predictions have cost you beer in the past. 

Its a wedge issue.  And like any wedge issue they are going to lose some and gain some.  They have made the judgment they will gain more then they lose.  We will never know which way that will work out.

I basically agree that there should not be degrees and gradations of citizenship (though I am somewhat troubled by those who obtain Canadian citizenship merely as a convenience, while living and paying taxes elsewhere - that strikes me as gaming the system).

However, I strongly doubt many will understand the issues involved here. My prediction is that the Cons lost more votes over using the phrase "old stock" by a large factor, than they will over this decision.

[crazy canuck]

However, I strongly doubt many will understand the issues involved here. My prediction is that the Cons lost more votes over using the phrase "old stock" by a large factor, than they will over this decision.

I agree. 

[viper37]

But not in Quebec which is perhaps why they are doing this.

I don't think this is really an issue here.  Most people here don't feel as "Canadians" as, say, an "Ontarian" would.  When people talk of "Canadian values", it is a silent echo in Quebec.  However, sometimes, it does resonate with "Quebec values", so that's why the Cons made some gains (or rather, the NDP lost support) on the burqa issue.

The issue of wether or not someone is expelled from the country could gain some support and lost them some here as well, but the net effect would be close to neutral.

[viper37]

Tell me.  What is the difference between a Canadian citizen and a Canadian citizen?

it's a bit unfair to caracterize it this way.

Let's assume we have two criminals, same crime, same personality.  One is a canadian citizen, the other is not.  The Canadian citizen will be jailed, but the non Canadian citizen can be deported to his country of origin.  Technically, both are equal in front of the law.  Yet, one may be expelled from the country to some 3rd world shithole, while the other will not risk any of that.

Now, if someone has dual citizenship and uses one of his citizenship to commit crimes against Canada or our allies, I think it is perfectly justified to say he implicitely renounced his canadian citizenship by committing crimes of this nature.  All that is left is the technicallity of the papers to sign.

And it's probably one of the best way to prevent radicalization in our own countries by these people.