[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Josephus]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?

I'm pretty sure you do, yeah. You have to be one to vote.

[Grey Fox]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?

Yes. You don't have to be born in Canada to be a Canadian Citizen. Re: Mono.

[Oexmelin]

In any event, I note you are carefully not addressing the actual point made upthread - that Duceppe's popularity appeared to plummet when he dragged seperatism into the campaign (contrary to the statement by the Parti Quebecois Leader Pauline Marois  that sovereignty was "not an issue" in the campaign. Thus, that there is a certain correlation between the defeat of the Bloc and tiredness with seperatism.

I thought I addressed that point above (in that I do not see at all a correlation, separatism was dragged in in order to save what could be saved) - but apparently you were too busy to twist my words in order to feel insulted.

[Grey Fox]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?

I'm pretty sure you do, yeah. You have to be one to vote.

To be a Candidate you have to be eligible to vote & couple other restrictions.

[Monoriu]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?

Yes. You don't have to be born in Canada to be a Canadian Citizen. Re: Mono.

[Fireblade]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?

I'm pretty sure you do, yeah. You have to be one to vote.

To be a Candidate you have to be eligible to vote & couple other restrictions.

Well, hell, I'd better get started. After 4 years of Harper, the Quebecois will be BEGGING for me to lead them to freedom.

My platform:

- I will introduce the "Legalize It, and I Will Advertise It" bill.
- French to be the sole national language of Canada
- All oil revenue in Alberta will go to economic development in Quebec
- Unlimited Internet and subsidized porno subscriptions for all Canadian citizens
- Sell Prince Edward Island to China to raise money

[Josephus]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?

I'm pretty sure you do, yeah. You have to be one to vote.

To be a Candidate you have to be eligible to vote & couple other restrictions.

Well, hell, I'd better get started. After 4 years of Harper, the Quebecois will be BEGGING for me to lead them to freedom.

My platform:

- I will introduce the "Legalize It, and I Will Advertise It" bill.
- French to be the sole national language of Canada
- All oil revenue in Alberta will go to economic development in Quebec
- Unlimited Internet and subsidized porno subscriptions for all Canadian citizens
- Sell Prince Edward Island to China to raise money

Well you'll probably win Quebec...they're pretty fickle.
But the subsidized porno subscriptions won't win you any votes from the conservatives who hate gov't subsidies, not to mention porn.

[Fireblade]

It takes 2 mandates for the pension, iirc.

They sure are having a good next 4 years at 157k/year.

Sounds like a good gig over all. I might try it next time. 

I noticed that the leader of the Green Party was born in America. Do you have to be a Canadian citizen to run for parliament..?

I'm pretty sure you do, yeah. You have to be one to vote.

To be a Candidate you have to be eligible to vote & couple other restrictions.

Well, hell, I'd better get started. After 4 years of Harper, the Quebecois will be BEGGING for me to lead them to freedom.

My platform:

- I will introduce the "Legalize It, and I Will Advertise It" bill.
- French to be the sole national language of Canada
- All oil revenue in Alberta will go to economic development in Quebec
- Unlimited Internet and subsidized porno subscriptions for all Canadian citizens
- Sell Prince Edward Island to China to raise money

Well you'll probably win Quebec...they're pretty fickle.
But the subsidized porno subscriptions won't win you any votes from the conservatives who hate gov't subsidies, not to mention porn.

I also plan on sending all Tories to the new Nunavut gulags.

[Malthus]

In any event, I note you are carefully not addressing the actual point made upthread - that Duceppe's popularity appeared to plummet when he dragged seperatism into the campaign (contrary to the statement by the Parti Quebecois Leader Pauline Marois  that sovereignty was "not an issue" in the campaign. Thus, that there is a certain correlation between the defeat of the Bloc and tiredness with seperatism.

I thought I addressed that point above (in that I do not see at all a correlation, separatism was dragged in in order to save what could be saved) - but apparently you were too busy to twist my words in order to feel insulted.

Please point out what words I have "twisted".

I said:

Edit: and another thing: being told one cannot have a legitimate opinion because I don't happen to be a citizen of Quebec gets old fast (doesn't help when that "opinion" is misidentfied).

You said:

I has nothing to do with not being a citizen of Quebec and everything to do with having one's sources skewed because of a) the language barrier and b) the unanimity of the tone of the anglo press regarding sovereignty.

How can that be read as anything other than an endorsement of the notion that a non-citizen of Quebec cannot have a legitimate opinion?

Never mind no aknowledgement being made that my actual opinion was being straw-manned - I never held that this election meant the "death of seperatism" or anything of the sort, only that it was a possibly important political trend-marker.

Your response (made, it may be pointed out, in a subsequent post) makes little sense on its face - that the Bloc dragged in seperatism to shore up his base is admitted, but how can you ignore completely fact that it had exactly the opposite effect - That support plummeted after D. "dragged in" seperatism?

Think of it this way - if the Cons, facing sagging polls, decided to beat the drum about their social-conservative agenda - re-introduce the gay marriage debate and the abortion debate for starters - and, in the subsequent election they got totally humiliated - reduced to a mere handful of seats - would it not be a reasonable indication that perhaps the voters, of whatever type, were simply not interested in turning the clock back on those debates, even though many if not most of them self-identify as "social conservatives"?

That does not mean of course that the voters may never be interested in them again.

[Drakken]

As I wrote to Neil earlier, death of separatism in Quebec is a pipe dream, it'll never happen unless some nukes fall all over Quebec.

Even on bad years in which we seem to "love" Ottawa, 40% of the Quebec population would vote yes to outright separation right here, right now.

[Grey Fox]

Man, we vote for a federalist party & yet, we're still going about independance. Urg.

[Drakken]

Man, we vote for a federalist party & yet, we're still going about independance. Urg.

The fact that NDP is federalist is irrelevant. We voted more to get the BQ out of their pension seats because they dared bringing back the national question once too much when it wasn't warranted.

They were behaving like our vote was acquired just because we're Quebeckers, and we were irked by it.

[Malthus]

As I wrote to Neil earlier, death of separatism in Quebec is a pipe dream, it'll never happen unless some nukes fall all over Quebec.

Even on bad years in which we seem to "love" Ottawa, 40% of the Quebec population would vote yes to outright separation right here, right now.

Would these figures, by any chance, be comming from the same pollsters that covered this last election - none of whom foresaw a majority Conservative government, and none of whom foresaw the Bloc being reduced to a rump?

Not to say I think this latest result means the "death of seperatism" - it doesn't. It does, however, mean more than nothing.

[Camerus]

I'm an Anglo Canadian currently living in Quebec, and thus I am unsure whether I have the ability to comment on Quebec or not.     However, I will say I am fairly ambivalent on the issue of Quebec soverignty.  I generally hope the country will stay together, but I don't feel terribly exicted or dismayed whenever the sovereigntists or the federalists appear to have the upper-hand in Quebec.

Ultimately, if a majority of Quebecers vote to leave Canada in a clearly phrased question, then I would have no problem with secession (though I do have grave doubts about the ability of this province to be a viable independent state and there would be a great many pratical questions to solve).  There are even certain respects in which I think "Anglo Canada" might be better off without Quebec.  And I can appreciate why Quebec would feel the need to take steps to protect its unique culture and why many Quebecers might feel this culture is simply is too different to ever be adequately represented politically or socially by the "Anglo" majority.

But I also tire of the constant refrains "What about Quebec?" and so on that are frequently a part of national discourse here.  Ultimately, Quebec is but one province in 10, and comprises iirc about 20% of Canada's population, but has been elevated to a tedious and ubiquitous prominence that outweighs its actual size and importance.

Which is all to say that the Canadian state should of course be built around consensus and compromise equally among all its provinces and nationalities.  If ever a majority in the Quebec nation expresses through the democratic process that the arrangement in Canada can no longer adequately represent their culture or national interests, then they should be allowed to leave freely.  In the meanwhile, beyond trying to seek some compromise and common ground, I won't worry too much about fluctuations in separatist sentiment because, say, the rest of Canada elected the Conservative party.

[Drakken]

Would these figures, by any chance, be comming from the same pollsters that covered this last election - none of whom foresaw a majority Conservative government, and none of whom foresaw the Bloc being reduced to a rump?

Not to say I think this latest result means the "death of seperatism" - it doesn't. It does, however, mean more than nothing.

The results are constant, give or take 1-2%, year after year, poll after poll.