[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Jacob]

Heh, my Ukrainian in-laws don't seem to suffer from this - mainly I think because they simply cheat, and get away with it. My brother-in-law's wife's dad in here right now on a 6 months visitor's visa that has so far lasted six years.

I guess they have lots of practice in cheating obstructive bureaucracy back home in Ukraine. 

Well, if they catch her then that's a bit of a problem, isn't it? I expect that if they do, the dad's going to get deported and barred from re-entering if the ever catch him; at least from the way you describe it.

[Jacob]

13 years for legal immigration?  That just opens the door for illegality and gaming the system, like Malthus' Ukrainian in-laws.

I wonder what the official Conservative explanation and rationale for the policy changes are?

I think it's "hey, if we increase the business class immigrants, that's an extra x million dollars in the budget; we can't increase immigration overall, so we'll just decrease the other categories." I don't know, however.

[crazy canuck]

On a quick google search I am not sure what changes you are referring to Jacob.  all I found were changes to worker permit applications coming into effect on April 1.

As you stated there has always been a lengthy delay for the family reunification categorie.  I am not sure what policies have been implemented that are any better or worse in that regard.

[BuddhaRhubarb]

On two political points and one superficial one, Harper earns my opposition.

Superficially, the stupid "Iggy went to the US for a while and he doesn't care about YOU" advertisements that the Conservatives have been running all over the place on TV (like during the superbowl) are just obnoxious.

Politically, I keep picking up little bits of more radical right Conservatism when it comes to women's rights etc; they've made abortion an issue with foreign aid and there's been other bits like that. That makes me quite suspicious of their hidden agenda; I don't want any evangelical flavoured social conservatism, thank you very much. That's just a suspicion, though, and something to be weighed with all the other things.

However, the Harper government's "streamlining immigration" has seriously and directly harmed my family. My recent rightward drift towards small c conservatism/ pragmatic business oriented small l liberalism hasn't really stopped - I got a house, I'm getting older and crankier - but because of this I can basically never ever support the Conservative Party of Canada. I'll probably start donating money to the various opposition parties.

The NDP? I'm not fond of the granola fringe at all, but fine. The Liberals? Sure why not. The BQ? Yeah, I don't mind. The Green Party? We'll I'm sure they'd be crazy, but fine. A coalition? Be my guest. As long as Harper gets the boot, I'll be content.

Sadly, from this thread it doesn't sound likely.

What Yakie said pretty much sums up how I feel, minus the stuff about owning a house. I'm definitely older and crankier. and want harper gone to become the footnote he deserves to be.

[Jacob]

On a quick google search I am not sure what changes you are referring to Jacob.  all I found were changes to worker permit applications coming into effect on April 1.

As you stated there has always been a lengthy delay for the family reunification categorie.  I am not sure what policies have been implemented that are any better or worse in that regard.

Vancouver immigration specialist Richard Kurland has uncovered an Immigration Canada report showing the government is aiming to cut by 40 per cent the number of offshore parents and grandparents permitted into Canada this year.

Some recent articles:

http://www.theprovince.com/Cuts+family+reunification+visas+upset+Asians/4255890/story.html
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/print.aspx?postid=742140

[Malthus]

Heh, my Ukrainian in-laws don't seem to suffer from this - mainly I think because they simply cheat, and get away with it. My brother-in-law's wife's dad in here right now on a 6 months visitor's visa that has so far lasted six years.

I guess they have lots of practice in cheating obstructive bureaucracy back home in Ukraine. 

Well, if they catch her then that's a bit of a problem, isn't it? I expect that if they do, the dad's going to get deported and barred from re-entering if the ever catch him; at least from the way you describe it.

Well, certainly; but they take that in stride.

The chances are he won't get caught - after all, he's not here doing crimes, but doing daycare for his grandkids.

Grandparents doing daycare for their own grandkids isn't the top o' the heap of policing priorities, it seems. If they waited for official approval, chances are he's die of old age before he got in legally - or so it appears from what you are saying. 

Ukrainians from Ukraine are amazingly blase about this sort of thing - I'm more used to obeying the law, however irrational, and would not be comfortable living like that.

[Admiral Yi]

How about an Ignatief attack ad using a Flashman theme?

[crazy canuck]

On a quick google search I am not sure what changes you are referring to Jacob.  all I found were changes to worker permit applications coming into effect on April 1.

As you stated there has always been a lengthy delay for the family reunification categorie.  I am not sure what policies have been implemented that are any better or worse in that regard.

Vancouver immigration specialist Richard Kurland has uncovered an Immigration Canada report showing the government is aiming to cut by 40 per cent the number of offshore parents and grandparents permitted into Canada this year.

Some recent articles:

http://www.theprovince.com/Cuts+family+reunification+visas+upset+Asians/4255890/story.html
http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/print.aspx?postid=742140

Ok, so it looks like there hasnt actually been any policy change.

It would be wrong to infer from planning numbers how many people Canada will actually welcome in 2011.

[Neil]

Family reunification is a low priority indeed, especially for the elderly.  These are people who are coming in not to do useful work, but to leech.

[crazy canuck]

What Yakie said pretty much sums up how I feel, minus the stuff about owning a house. I'm definitely older and crankier. and want harper gone to become the footnote he deserves to be.

Whatever Harper deserves it is certainly not a mere footnote.  He has governed successfully under a minority government.  That is a feat that has rarely occurred in our form of Parliamentary democracy.   If you really want Harper gone you should be upset at the fact that the opposition is causing an election now.  Chances are Harper will be here for a long time because of that decision.

[Jacob]

Ok, so it looks like there hasnt actually been any policy change.

I disagree:

An Ontario MP has spoken against a decision by the Federal Government to cut family reunification visas by 30 per cent.

The reduction in Canadian Visa numbers for family reunifications shows the Governemnt is out of touch, says an Ontario MP.
Mississauga-Brampton South Navdeep Bains says the decision, announced Sunday by Canadian Immigration Minister Jason Kenney, will essentially keep families apart for up to 13 years because of processing delays.

Mr Bains said the Government should be looking at ways to bring families together, and that the Conservatives are out of touch with the needs of new Canadian families.

More than 148,000 parents and grandparents overseas are already waiting as long as five years for a Canadian Visa to be reunited with their Canadian children and grandchildren.

To meet targets, the Canadian Government has decided to cut family reunification visas by 5,000: from 16,000 a year to 11,000. It is expected that this 30 per cent reduction in visas will compound waiting times.

The Canadian Immigration department maintains that spouses and children of Canadian citizens and permanent residents remain the priority for reunification visas, while parents and grandparents can visit Canada on multiple-entry visas while waiting to be sponsored.

http://www.visabureau.com/canada/news/16-02-2011/ontario-mp-slams-canadian-visa-cutbacks-for-family-reunification.aspx

An Immigration Canada official saying "it would be wrong to infer how many people Canada will actually welcome" does not alter the fact that there's been an almost 30 percent reduction in the number of visas issued in the reunification category as a matter of policy (see above).

Similarly:

Earlier this month, Vancouver immigration lawyer Richard Kurland called public attention to immigration cuts to be made by the Conservative government for this year, including a reduction in the number of skilled workers who will be accepted to Canada.

In a phone interview, Kurland noted that there are 142,000 parents and grandparents abroad waiting for visas from Canada. According to him, the government will issue only 11,200 visas for this group in 2011, marking a 30-percent drop from the more than 16,000 visas issued last year.

"The math says that if you apply today, it's a minimum 13-year waiting period," Kurland told the Straight.

http://www.straight.com/article-378513/vancouver/vancouver-city-councillors-urge-protection-family-reunification-program

Looking at Immigration Canada's own site I see that the target for Family Class Grandparents and Parents in 2009 was set to between 18000 to 19000, and they actually let in a little over 17000 (less than the minimum set as their goal). In 2010 they reduced the target range to 15000 to 18000 (no indication of how many they processed).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/annual-report2010/section2.asp#part2_1

In the plan for 2011, they've reduced the number in that class to 13000 to 17500.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/annual-report2010/section1.asp

For whatever reason, those numbers don't match the exact numbers Kurland claims were in the report he obtained (and has reportedly shown to reporters), but nontheless that's a 28% reduction in the minimum number of entrants for Family class Grandparents and Prents since 2009. That amounts to a policy change as far as I'm concerned.

I've contacted the officers of both Mr. Kenney and Mr. Harper, and I've spoken to Immigration Canada officials. So far there has been no useful response.

As such, in spite of some official saying "don't jump to conclusions about numbers" there's been a change, and a significant one.

Right now, they're processing Family Class Grandparents and Parents applications received on September 7th, 2007 - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm-fc.asp - If in two years time they're processing the ones received in September, 2009 then I'll admit that I was wrong (and be relieved). If our application is in fact processed within the 42 months (plus the 37 months of that, processing in the embassy in Beijing) the CIC is currently projecting then my wife (and eventually even me, when I finally go for citizenship) may well vote Conservative (other than this and the hints of social conservatism I don't have much against them).

Right now, however, that 28% drop from 2009 isn't looking very promising. Now, if it plays out differently than what that implies, then I'll be very happy to admit that I was wrong.

[Barrister]

I have to admit Jacob that family unification immigrants are not a huge concern for me.  It's something done on compassionate grounds, but not out of any particular economic or cultural Canadian need.

I understand of course why it is an issue for you and your family, and why your priorities are different than mine.  I guess it's too bad that you're not able to vote and thus demonstrate your disapproval in the most direct fasion.

[Jacob]

I have to admit Jacob that family unification immigrants are not a huge concern for me.  It's something done on compassionate grounds, but not out of any particular economic or cultural Canadian need.

Of course it isn't a big concern to you, it's not your family. My main point with the big post above is to illustrate that there has, in fact, been a policy change by the Harper government.

I understand of course why it is an issue for you and your family, and why your priorities are different than mine.  I guess it's too bad that you're not able to vote and thus demonstrate your disapproval in the most direct fasion.

Well, my wife will be able to vote in about a year or so, so in the next election we'll be able to make our point. This is pushing me further towards getting the Canadian citizenship sooner, but so far the plan hasn't changed; I'm waiting until we're done having kids.

In any case, this is potentially shaping up to be my very own NEP and Harper my very own Trudeau, from an Albertan perspective. Eventually I'll be able to vote; if this pans out the way it looks like it will that vote will never be for the Conservatives.

[Barrister]

In any case, this is potentially shaping up to be my very own NEP and Harper my very own Trudeau, from an Albertan perspective. Eventually I'll be able to vote; if this pans out the way it looks like it will that vote will never be for the Conservatives.

That's unfortunate, but perhaps not unexpected.  I don't imagine that mixed Danish-Dhinese first generation immigrant families that work in cultural industry is a very likely Conservative demographic.

Ah well - in a democracy you're never going to please all of the people, all of the time.

Edit: Glad to hear you're planning on getting your citizenship.

[Grey Fox]

This should be a lesson to all immigrants. Get your citizenship.