[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grallon]

Ask Jospeh Facal... he seem to disagree with you, as well as many former PQ members/ministers.
C'mon.  Be serious.  The Bloc was signing a blank check to the Libs for 2 years.  The CLP with Stephane Dion at its head!  Don't tell me you can't see what's bad about this, please!

That's the whole point.  Give support to a Liberal-led federalist coalition which will inevitably screw Quebec over therefore demonstrating that the whole system doesn't work. 

You have to think strategically - something the PQ leadership fails miserably at. 




G.

[Grey Fox]

My friend, well acquaintance, husband is trying to immigrate from the US. It's going to take years.

If he was doing from Haiti, he'd be a citizen already.

[crazy canuck]

I guess Layton lost your vote with that maneouvre. Real pity that, with the NDP being so competitive in North Vancouver.

It has nothing to do with my vote.  We were discussing whether Layton had done something politically stupid.  At first Josephus agreed that it was but then went into defence mode.  I see no upside for the NDP in forcing an election and the NDP stand a very good chance of losing seats where they are potentially competitive.

[Grey Fox]

I still dont see this as the NDP forcing an election.

[Malthus]

Ask Jospeh Facal... he seem to disagree with you, as well as many former PQ members/ministers.
C'mon.  Be serious.  The Bloc was signing a blank check to the Libs for 2 years.  The CLP with Stephane Dion at its head!  Don't tell me you can't see what's bad about this, please!

That's the whole point.  Give support to a Liberal-led federalist coalition which will inevitably screw Quebec over therefore demonstrating that the whole system doesn't work. 

You have to think strategically - something the PQ leadership fails miserably at. 




G.

How like an ethnic nationalist, to think that the problem is a lack of oppression. 

[crazy canuck]

Say you and I are leaders of political parties. Say you lead party A and I lead Party B. Our parties have very little in common. WE are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I like squares, you like circles.  Now you say you are going to table a budget and you want my support. I say, "I doubt that can happen but look, if you throw in A, B and C, maybe I will."

Instead lets deal with what really happened.

Months ago Layton set out criteria for getting his support on the budget.  So far so good.  That is what he is supposed to do as an oppostion leader and, to his credit, he has done a good job of bargaining in past budgets.

Then he has a complete brain fart and says publicly that because the Conservatives didnt give him everything he wanted he could not support the budget.  Continuing on the "take my ball home" theme this is the kind of lesson we teach two year olds.  But I suppose the NDP needs the lesson to be repeated.   Life is never an all or nothing proposition.  Compromise is necessary in life as it is in politics.  Layton would have got some of what he wanted but by forcing an election he will lose that leverage (perhaps permanently if the Cons win a majority).

That is bad politics no matter how you want to dress it up.

Why do you pin this on Layton? The Libs & BQ could have not taken the chicken route either but they did, faster then Layton so he's responsible?

As I told Jacob, I am not pinning it on him but the NDP is the party who should want to avoid an election at this time the most since they are the party that will likely lose the most in an election.  Reread my first post where I said I thought this all felt contrived and that I had no idea why the NDP would go along with the other opposition parties in forcing an election.

[Josephus]

I still think the NDP can't gain anything this election; but my argument was that I give Layton credit for not selling out; like he did when he turned against Martin.
In any case, it's looking likely that it's not going to matter as the gov't is going to fall over another entirely separate issue.

[crazy canuck]

I still dont see this as the NDP forcing an election.

In addition to my last post, without the NDP there would be no election.  The bloc and Liberals alone dont have the votes to bring down the government.  I heard one commentator yesterday compare the Layton decision to the charge of the Light Brigade.

[crazy canuck]

In any case, it's looking likely that it's not going to matter as the gov't is going to fall over another entirely separate issue.

That is simply the mechanism for bringing the government down over the budget.  If all opposition parties were not opposing the budget and motion on Friday would not be a confidence motion.  It is only because Layton said he was prepared to defeat the government on the budget that Iggy has made this motion on Friday into a confidence motion.

[Grey Fox]

I still dont see this as the NDP forcing an election.

In addition to my last post, without the NDP there would be no election.  The bloc and Liberals alone dont have the votes to bring down the government.  I heard one commentator yesterday compare the Layton decision to the charge of the Light Brigade.

I see now.

Because voting for the budget would put him in an even worse political position then the one he's force to adhere by the other two parties.

Plus after weeks of claiming Harper is in contemps of parliement, you can't back his budget.

[crazy canuck]

I still dont see this as the NDP forcing an election.

In addition to my last post, without the NDP there would be no election.  The bloc and Liberals alone dont have the votes to bring down the government.  I heard one commentator yesterday compare the Layton decision to the charge of the Light Brigade.

I see now.

Because voting for the budget would put him in an even worse political position then the one he's force to adhere by the other two parties.

Plus after weeks of claiming Harper is in contemps of parliement, you can't back his budget.

Yeah, I think all the rhetoric floating around in recent weeks as forced him into this position.

[Malthus]

Politically, this is unwise. "Contempt of Parliament" as an issue lacks legs, I predict few will remember wtf it was about come election-time.

The opposition parties had better pray that something rather juicier comes out in time.

[viper37]

Ask Jospeh Facal... he seem to disagree with you, as well as many former PQ members/ministers.
C'mon.  Be serious.  The Bloc was signing a blank check to the Libs for 2 years.  The CLP with Stephane Dion at its head!  Don't tell me you can't see what's bad about this, please!

That's the whole point.  Give support to a Liberal-led federalist coalition which will inevitably screw Quebec over therefore demonstrating that the whole system doesn't work. 

You have to think strategically - something the PQ leadership fails miserably at. 




G.

But how far should we go in screwing us, making us miserable, just to achieve a possible (and unlikely) independance?

A majority conservative government without significant weight from Quebec will be bad for us, not as bad as the Libs, but close to disaster.

[Grallon]

How like an ethnic nationalist, to think that the problem is a lack of oppression. 

Strange, you say 'ethnic nationalist' as if it was a bad thing.

In any case since this coalition isn't likely to materialize then the Bloc' strategy should have been to help maintain the Conservatives in power as a minority govt.  I don't think anyone wants a majority PCC gvt knowing what we know of their governance methods.  But I believe this election is the last for Duceppe as leader of the Bloc so he probably wants to make it his 'baroud d'honneur'.




G.

[crazy canuck]

Politically, this is unwise. "Contempt of Parliament" as an issue lacks legs, I predict few will remember wtf it was about come election-time.

The opposition parties had better pray that something rather juicier comes out in time.

Agreed.  It makes me think that Iggy is facing a lot of pressure internally to do something even if it costs him his position as leader.  But again, Layton's decision to go along with it is mind boggling.