[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

But there was no wave of Mulroney-mania in 1984. 

211 MPs. The most in Canadian history.  And he was campaigning against John Turner, not Trudeau.  Trudeau was popular until he left office.  Scumbags are always loved.  See Jean Chrétien, Donald Trump, Pierre Poilièvre, Éric Duhaime.

[viper37]

Yeah, I don't dread Poilievre the way I dread Trump. I don't think our democracy is under threat

Freedom is.
LGBT rights, privacy rights, environmental rights for communities vs big oil.

This is just the start of the oligarchy that leads to Russia.

[HVC]

Scumbags are always loved.  See Jean Chrétien, Donald Trump, Pierre Poilièvre, Éric Duhaime.

Chretien was the last cool PM we had.

[viper37]

Scumbags are always loved.  See Jean Chrétien, Donald Trump, Pierre Poilièvre, Éric Duhaime.

Chretien was the last cool PM we had.

Do better next time. Please.

[HVC]

I don't see harper choking hecklers

[Josephus]

The electoral system in Canada, I think, is safer than the USA one. For one, we don't have a president who gets chosen by a handful of electoral votes.  And we don't have provincial ratifications which can be manipulated and abused. I think it is harder to launch a coup (electorally) in Canada than the US.

[crazy canuck]

The electoral system in Canada, I think, is safer than the USA one. For one, we don't have a president who gets chosen by a handful of electoral votes.  And we don't have provincial ratifications which can be manipulated and abused. I think it is harder to launch a coup (electorally) in Canada than the US.

All of that is true, but a majority parliamentary government has much more power than a president. And under the Trudeau PMO so much has been centralized within the executive that parliament is mainly window dressing.

Prior to 2015 I was less concerned about the power of a majority government because parliament was a more significant force within federal politics. I'm not so sure about that anymore.

[Barrister]

But there was no wave of Mulroney-mania in 1984. 

211 MPs. The most in Canadian history.  And he was campaigning against John Turner, not Trudeau.  Trudeau was popular until he left office.  Scumbags are always loved.  See Jean Chrétien, Donald Trump, Pierre Poilièvre, Éric Duhaime.

There's no doubt that Mulroney had the biggest majority in Canadian history.

But it had far more to do with the Liberals being unpopular than the PCs being popular.  Remember in 1984 the country had been run by the Liberals for 21 years (with the exception of 9 months of Joe Clarke).  Pierre Trudeau was NOT popular anymore - the 1968 Trudeau-mania was long, long gone.

Did you know in 1984 that the Liberals won only 2 seats in all of western Canada?  John Turner's seat in Vancouver, and I think Lloyd Axworthy in Winnipeg.

And this isn't some kind of vengeance of mine for not being a PC fan.  It happens with most elections - incumbents lose elections much more than opposition win them.  The opposition party just has to be acceptable enough.

[crazy canuck]

BB may have been too young to actually understand what was happening in 1984. Mooney swept the country not just western Canada.  He won the largest conservative victory in the history of Canada.

Trudeau was long gone as Viper had pointed out.

Reformers like BB hated Mulroney and it still shows

[viper37]

The electoral system in Canada, I think, is safer than the USA one. For one, we don't have a president who gets chosen by a handful of electoral votes.  And we don't have provincial ratifications which can be manipulated and abused. I think it is harder to launch a coup (electorally) in Canada than the US.

All of that is true, but a majority parliamentary government has much more power than a president. And under the Trudeau PMO so much has been centralized within the executive that parliament is mainly window dressing.

Prior to 2015 I was less concerned about the power of a majority government because parliament was a more significant force within federal politics. I'm not so sure about that anymore.

Which Trudeau?  It's been gradually centralized since the elder one.

[viper37]

But there was no wave of Mulroney-mania in 1984. 

211 MPs. The most in Canadian history.  And he was campaigning against John Turner, not Trudeau.  Trudeau was popular until he left office.  Scumbags are always loved.  See Jean Chrétien, Donald Trump, Pierre Poilièvre, Éric Duhaime.

There's no doubt that Mulroney had the biggest majority in Canadian history.

But it had far more to do with the Liberals being unpopular than the PCs being popular.  Remember in 1984 the country had been run by the Liberals for 21 years (with the exception of 9 months of Joe Clarke).  Pierre Trudeau was NOT popular anymore - the 1968 Trudeau-mania was long, long gone.

Did you know in 1984 that the Liberals won only 2 seats in all of western Canada?  John Turner's seat in Vancouver, and I think Lloyd Axworthy in Winnipeg.

And this isn't some kind of vengeance of mine for not being a PC fan.  It happens with most elections - incumbents lose elections much more than opposition win them.  The opposition party just has to be acceptable enough.

Mulroney was very popular in Quebec.  There was a blue wave here.  He rallied support from the PQ to join him, and a lot of Liberal supporters stood behind him.

I can not speak of English Canada's mood at the time, my political awakening came later.

[crazy canuck]

The electoral system in Canada, I think, is safer than the USA one. For one, we don't have a president who gets chosen by a handful of electoral votes.  And we don't have provincial ratifications which can be manipulated and abused. I think it is harder to launch a coup (electorally) in Canada than the US.

All of that is true, but a majority parliamentary government has much more power than a president. And under the Trudeau PMO so much has been centralized within the executive that parliament is mainly window dressing.

Prior to 2015 I was less concerned about the power of a majority government because parliament was a more significant force within federal politics. I'm not so sure about that anymore.

Which Trudeau?  It's been gradually centralized since the elder one.

The current one.  And that is one biggest promises he broke almost immediately but never got called on.  Remember when he said that ministers would have the freedom of decision making over their ministries?  He said that because Harper was maligned, I think unfairly, for being too controlling.  It was a promise Trudeau never meant to keep.  Within months he (really Butts) created an all powerful PMO through which all decisions flowed.

The Elder Trudeau probably would have wanted to have that kind of control, and he was the first one who started the PMO down this path.  But in his day parliamentary norms would never have permitted it to occur.

[crazy canuck]

I can not speak of English Canada's mood at the time, my political awakening came later.

Mulroney won seats in BC that had been NDP strongholds.  His success was not just an anti-Liberal sentiment.  The country really did get swept with his optimistic view of the future.  And he was instrumental in creating and implementing policies to help usher in that brighter future.  Free Trade with the US being the most important.  The world can also thank him for convincing both Reagan and Thatcher to lean into ending apartheid in South Africa.

He was very popular until it all came crashing down when the Reformers cut him off at the knees.

[viper37]

The Elder Trudeau probably would have wanted to have that kind of control, and he was the first one who started the PMO down this path.  But in his day parliamentary norms would never have permitted it to occur.

It was a gradual process.
Trudeau created it.  Mulroney reinforce the role a bit.
Chrétien was a big fan of the tool and the power it gave him, especially in a centralized Canada.
Harper went further.
And then Trudeau Jr.

[viper37]

He was very popular until it all came crashing down when the Reformers cut him off at the knees.

And strangely enough (sarcasm), the one he blamed the most was Lucien Bouchard.  It always came down to how Lucien betrayed him by creating the Bloc Québécois.  Never a word about the Reform Party.