[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

Certainly, there will be issues to work through.  There are probably a lot of those 90 and younger parents around given the fact that the last school didn't close its doors until 1996.  I am not sure who you so certain about the numbers of deaths before or after 1950 since the TRC itself said it could not be certain and we now know its estimate was off by a factor of 4 for at least this one location.

Your example is a bad one.  There is no fiduciary obligation in that scenario.  The law of damages related to breaches of a fiduciary obligation is different from negligence.

I'm going from the TRC report.  Residential schools did not operate unchangingly - a residential school from 1890 looked nothing like one from 1990.  The death rates between residential schools and the larger population equalized by around 1950 (they were dramatically higher before then).

The number of deaths - absolutely.  The 50-some was only the number the TRC could confirm, and they suspected (and said) it was probably higher.  But the timing is something we have a much better feel for.

[crazy canuck]

Certainly, there will be issues to work through.  There are probably a lot of those 90 and younger parents around given the fact that the last school didn't close its doors until 1996.  I am not sure who you so certain about the numbers of deaths before or after 1950 since the TRC itself said it could not be certain and we now know its estimate was off by a factor of 4 for at least this one location.

Your example is a bad one.  There is no fiduciary obligation in that scenario.  The law of damages related to breaches of a fiduciary obligation is different from negligence.

I'm going from the TRC report.  Residential schools did not operate unchangingly - a residential school from 1890 looked nothing like one from 1990.  The death rates between residential schools and the larger population equalized by around 1950 (they were dramatically higher before then).

The number of deaths - absolutely.  The 50-some was only the number the TRC could confirm, and they suspected (and said) it was probably higher.  But the timing is something we have a much better feel for.

Yes, and I will repeat, the TRC asked for additional funding to do a better job inquiring into all the issues related to the deaths which occurred at the schools.  The Conservative government of the day, under two different ministers, refused that request.  You cannot rely on the estimates as being determinative in any way.  They are at best rough guesses.  As illustrated by the fact their estimate was out by a factor of 4 at Kamloops.

[saskganesh]

We should close down those churches and confiscate their properties. There is no Jesus there.

[HVC]

I know I should be a bit more civic minded, but getting an amber alert at 4 in the morning in regards to an incident 4 hours away displeases me.

[Josephus]

I know I should be a bit more civic minded, but getting an amber alert at 4 in the morning in regards to an incident 4 hours away displeases me.

It was annoying, but I guess a small price to pay if it saves some kid.

[Grey Fox]

I know I should be a bit more civic minded, but getting an amber alert at 4 in the morning in regards to an incident 4 hours away displeases me.

2 hours away & did not get the alert.

I think we should rethink the provincial breakdowns.

[Malthus]

I know I should be a bit more civic minded, but getting an amber alert at 4 in the morning in regards to an incident 4 hours away displeases me.

It was annoying, but I guess a small price to pay if it saves some kid.

I think they ought to have different levels of alerts. The "blast you out of bed at 4 am" alert ought to be reserved for mass emergencies. Child abductions should be noted, but not at the same level.

Having all alerts at the same level has a certain "boy crying wolf" effect - people start to ignore them, because they are largely irrelevant.

[Josephus]

I know I should be a bit more civic minded, but getting an amber alert at 4 in the morning in regards to an incident 4 hours away displeases me.

It was annoying, but I guess a small price to pay if it saves some kid.

I think they ought to have different levels of alerts. The "blast you out of bed at 4 am" alert ought to be reserved for mass emergencies. Child abductions should be noted, but not at the same level.

Having all alerts at the same level has a certain "boy crying wolf" effect - people start to ignore them, because they are largely irrelevant.

I dunno...who decides when a child abduction is an emergency or not. It could certainly lead to one.

I think what they need to do is localize it a bit. As HVC pointed out, those of us in the centre of the universe, Toronto, were awakened because of some abduction in Ottawa.

[Malthus]

I know I should be a bit more civic minded, but getting an amber alert at 4 in the morning in regards to an incident 4 hours away displeases me.

It was annoying, but I guess a small price to pay if it saves some kid.

I think they ought to have different levels of alerts. The "blast you out of bed at 4 am" alert ought to be reserved for mass emergencies. Child abductions should be noted, but not at the same level.

Having all alerts at the same level has a certain "boy crying wolf" effect - people start to ignore them, because they are largely irrelevant.

I dunno...who decides when a child abduction is an emergency or not. It could certainly lead to one.

I think what they need to do is localize it a bit. As HVC pointed out, those of us in the centre of the universe, Toronto, were awakened because of some abduction in Ottawa.

The system used in other places has different levels of alerts. It would make sense to have a system in which abduction or missing persons alerts were less intrusive than, say, an alert for tornados, nuclear disasters, or tsunamis (though admittedly the latter is sorta unlikely in Toronto!)

It makes sense to wake everyone up at four am if there is a tsunami coming, or something of that sort, which requires the average person to take immediate action. If some people weren't in the immediate area affected, no doubt they would accept a bit of inconvenience because others were helped.

It does not make sense to wake everyone up to alert them to the fact that some elderly person had abducted a child, even if you happened to live in the vicinity. It is very unlikely that anyone so alerted would be able to do anything constructive about it. Certainly, issue an alert, so first responders and others already awake at 4 am are alerted. But do so at a level of alert that does not automatically trigger the "wake up at once and take action" alert tone.

Why not, you ask? Is not the life of a child of infinite importance, worth the mild inconvenience of lots of people being woken up?

Well, certainly. Problem is that if people constantly get random missing persons alerts at the highest alert setting (which the vast majority can do nothing constructive about, particularly not at 4 am), what are they going to do? I can tell you that - they will lose any sense of urgency concerning the alerts. They will assume 'it's another child abduction in North Bay' and simply ignore it. They will find ways of turning off the system, put the phone somewhere where it won't wake them up, etc.

Treating everything like it is a top level emergency becomes, effectively, treating nothing like it is a top level emergency. It degrades the usefulness of the system. Child abductions are, unfortunately, relatively common (many the result of ugly custody battles). Incoming mass disasters are, fortunately, very uncommon ... so likely to be drowned out.

[viper37]

The alert could be visible on your phone as soon as you take it and remain there until dismissed, with no sound at all.  Like, say, no sounds when your phone is in a "DND" state.

[Oexmelin]

How much of a problem is it, really? How many alerts are we talking about?

[HVC]

Happens enough that, like Malthus said, most people I know now ignore it.

[Josephus]

Happens enough that, like Malthus said, most people I know now ignore it.

Not THAT often. Four-five times a year?

This is the first one in a long time that came at 4 a.m.

[Oexmelin]

it looks like a very low bar of annoyance.

[HVC]

Happens enough that, like Malthus said, most people I know now ignore it.

Not THAT often. Four-five times a year?

This is the first one in a long time that came at 4 a.m.

I'd say more the that, but not a lot more.

@oex. I agree it's a low bar but people are people. I don't know if there's a way to fix that.