[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

I was tongue in cheek, but let's face the facts we have:
1) BB is one of our most conservative remaining members, both socially and economically.  Enabler or not, he ain't gonna sing praise of its sworn ennemy
2) He might have been stretching the truth, but not that much.  What does the NDP stands for that the LPC can not/will not enable?  Socialist parties used to be about apparent social justice while simply changing the hierarchy.  Outside of Trudeau, the LPC has never been that strong on wokist policies, it used to be much more about traditional canadian values, French bashing and anti-americanism.
3) On a personal level, I find few redeeming qualities to the current NDP leadership and party, but I am inclined to listen to your vision of what the NDP represents in terms of unique policy proposals.

I've always strived for a "biased but calls em as I sees em" approach.  I wear my biases on my sleeve, but I'm not a politician.  If Trudeau or the NDP do something right, I say that.

The NDP has always had a tension between its western wings, which are somewhat more pragmatic because they can and do win elections, and it's eastern (mostly Ontario) wing, which doesn't.  Singh, though currently representing a BC riding, is from Toronto and that more eastern-NDP sensibility.

I would have also been very happy with Jack Layton, and his eastern NDP sensibilities.

[Jacob]

The NDP has always had a tension between its western wings, which are somewhat more pragmatic because they can and do win elections, and it's eastern (mostly Ontario) wing, which doesn't.  Singh, though currently representing a BC riding, is from Toronto and that more eastern-NDP sensibility.

Ontario has had an NDP government (Bob Rae, 1990-95). It's a while ago, but still within living memory

[Barrister]

The NDP has always had a tension between its western wings, which are somewhat more pragmatic because they can and do win elections, and it's eastern (mostly Ontario) wing, which doesn't.  Singh, though currently representing a BC riding, is from Toronto and that more eastern-NDP sensibility.

Ontario has had an NDP government (Bob Rae, 1990-95). It's a while ago, but still within living memory

I can well remember it.  Do you, for example, remember how it was a snap election called for by the Liberals due to their high poll numbers and that nobody, not even Bob Rae, ever expected the NDP to win?

And do you recall how incredibly rocky their time in government was?

And you'll no doubt remember that in the 1995 election the NDP was returned to third party status which I believe it has remained in ever since.

[crazy canuck]

The NDP has always had a tension between its western wings, which are somewhat more pragmatic because they can and do win elections, and it's eastern (mostly Ontario) wing, which doesn't.  Singh, though currently representing a BC riding, is from Toronto and that more eastern-NDP sensibility.

Ontario has had an NDP government (Bob Rae, 1990-95). It's a while ago, but still within living memory

I can well remember it.  Do you, for example, remember how it was a snap election called for by the Liberals due to their high poll numbers and that nobody, not even Bob Rae, ever expected the NDP to win?

And do you recall how incredibly rocky their time in government was?

And you'll no doubt remember that in the 1995 election the NDP was returned to third party status which I believe it has remained in ever since.

I think the thing you fundamentally misunderstand about the NDP is that the BC wing of the party has historically been the most radical wing and Ontario the more moderate version.  Now that the BC NDP has governed well, I am not sure your bogeyman arguments hold up all that well.

[Josephus]

The NDP has always had a tension between its western wings, which are somewhat more pragmatic because they can and do win elections, and it's eastern (mostly Ontario) wing, which doesn't.  Singh, though currently representing a BC riding, is from Toronto and that more eastern-NDP sensibility.

Ontario has had an NDP government (Bob Rae, 1990-95). It's a while ago, but still within living memory

I can well remember it.  Do you, for example, remember how it was a snap election called for by the Liberals due to their high poll numbers and that nobody, not even Bob Rae, ever expected the NDP to win?

And do you recall how incredibly rocky their time in government was?

And you'll no doubt remember that in the 1995 election the NDP was returned to third party status which I believe it has remained in ever since.

i remember clearly. I voted for him. I remember the day after the election The Toronto Sun's front page read "Oh No!" His finance minister Floyd Laughren was nicknamed "Pink Floyd".

Don't be so hard on him. He inherited a huge deficit from said Liberals. He was forced to introduce what became known as Rae Days, 12 unpaid days off for civil servants in order to freeze their salaries, saving around $2 billion. Unfortunately this caused friction with the public service unions and pretty much marked the end of the marriage between unions and the NDP in Ontario.

He introduced same sex marriage legislation, at the time quite a progressive move (it was defeated). He introduced rent control and various other things including allowing Ontarians to shop on Sundays. As with most things, the pendulum swung against him, Ontario elected Conservatie Mike Harris, who would eventually become one of the least popular premiers in the province.

[viper37]

It seems Ottawa public workers can't handle Quebec Franco women and vice versa.

Martine Ouellet?

[viper37]

I can tell you I have been very impressed with our BC NDP government.  If our Federal government operated half as well as that I would be pleased.

We don't get much news coverage of BC governance here, except for pandemic related stuff.  Might as well be in another country

Maybe if you'd elect a Trump-like figure for Premier we'd get to hear more often about what goes on in BC

[viper37]

He introduced same sex marriage legislation, at the time quite a progressive move (it was defeated). He introduced rent control and various other things including allowing Ontarians to shop on Sundays. As with most things, the pendulum swung against him, Ontario elected Conservatie Mike Harris, who would eventually become one of the least popular premiers in the province.

so, basically, he tried to pass legislation that Quebec already had?

I remember Rae's policies worsening the economic crisis of the province, increasing the deficits and unemployment, I think, too.

[crazy canuck]

I can tell you I have been very impressed with our BC NDP government.  If our Federal government operated half as well as that I would be pleased.

We don't get much news coverage of BC governance here, except for pandemic related stuff.  Might as well be in another country

Maybe if you'd elect a Trump-like figure for Premier we'd get to hear more often about what goes on in BC

If it makes you feel any better the same is true here about Quebec.  I get all my Quebec news from Languish.

[Barrister]

Kenney had kind-of changed tack on Keystone XL.  While still wanting Trudeau to pressure the US, he is saying "at a minimum" he'd like the US to pay TCPL (and as an investor, Alberta) to compensate for the expense of partially building a pipeline then having to abandon it, citing the "new NAFTA" investor protection provisions.

It seems like this angle has a much better chance of success - but also means there's no pipeline built.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/kenney-trudeau-letter-keystone-xl-1.5883751

[crazy canuck]

I remember Rae's policies worsening the economic crisis of the province, increasing the deficits and unemployment, I think, too.

Bob Rae took over power during the worst economic recession since the war (to that point at least).  Not exactly his fault.  But you were young so it might have seemed that he caused the recession. 

[crazy canuck]

Kenney had kind-of changed tack on Keystone XL.  While still wanting Trudeau to pressure the US, he is saying "at a minimum" he'd like the US to pay TCPL (and as an investor, Alberta) to compensate for the expense of partially building a pipeline then having to abandon it, citing the "new NAFTA" investor protection provisions.

It seems like this angle has a much better chance of success - but also means there's no pipeline built.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/kenney-trudeau-letter-keystone-xl-1.5883751

The chances of an investor claim is remote. The new agreement effectively gutted the ability of Canadian investors to make a claim.

I note you omitted the quote directly above the one you referred to where Kenney is still calling for Tariffs.

[viper37]

I remember Rae's policies worsening the economic crisis of the province, increasing the deficits and unemployment, I think, too.

Bob Rae took over power during the worst economic recession since the war (to that point at least).  Not exactly his fault.  But you were young so it might have seemed that he caused the recession. 

I said worsening   and yes, I was young back then

[Oexmelin]

Paull Wells on the GG debacle.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-problem-with-modernizing-and-the-governor-general/

[Barrister]

Paull Wells on the GG debacle.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/the-problem-with-modernizing-and-the-governor-general/

What a remarkable piece on the virtues of small-c conservative ideology!