[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Malthus]

I don't think it at all likely Trudeau will resign. He has survived ethics violations before.

[viper37]

I don't think it at all likely Trudeau will resign. He has survived ethics violations before.

an ethical Liberal is seen about as often as a pink unicorn.

[viper37]

The sixty million dollar question is whether the government(s) has a workable plan for both reopening and keeping the rates down.

if it involves cameras, you can bet our boy Justin has a plan.

[viper37]

And where is the Singh we saw in the last election?   

checking for racism under every carpet.

[viper37]

Chantal Hébert was saying that, basically on the basis that this crisis is draining.

I would say Freeland's fluency is on part with mid to late-1st mandate Harper. She has a lot more vocabulary than Harper tho. She will usually break down after 2-5 minutes of french talking.

I enjoy listening to/reading her opinions.  I also follow her on twitter, but unfortunately I cannot read all of what she writes because of my linguistic deficiency 

This isn't the reference to the comment you referred to but to a similar effect:

https://22163.mc.tritondigital.com/CBC_CBC_NEWS_AT_ISSUE_P/media-session/e4f5974f-5fa4-46ea-9c85-b57122facc20/atissue-W8fgStPY-20200709.mp3


at about the 5 minute mark.  "Anyone of competence would have recused themselves...." 


At 7:00 she says it weakens Trudeau's position within the party.

Although a minor one, Morneau also had an undeclared conflict of interest and didn't recuse himself.

[crazy canuck]

I don't see Trudeau not running except if he's being pushed out by the Libs.

Freeland's French is not fluid, but it's enough to accept long interviews in French, understand the question, and give articulate answers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVjz3mg2ZQM

I agree, but there are some smart able people in that caucus who may be able to convince him it is better to take a walk now and assure the Liberal party of winning the next election.  Realistically the only thing the can jeopardize that result is Trudeau.

I don't know if Liberals see it that way.

Remember the Libs were in third place when Trudeau showed up.  They seemed like a spent force, but he brought them into power.  He's already survived not only the blackface scandal, but the more serious conflict of interest with SNC Lavalin.

I know you're impressed with Freeland - but would she necessarily win a leadership election?

I don't know if she could.  But I do know there are people in cabinet and caucus who must be seeing their dental surgeons on a regular basis for having to bite down on their tongues so much.

[viper37]

But I do know there are people in cabinet and caucus who must be seeing their dental surgeons on a regular basis for having to bite down on their tongues so much.

They have has much spine as the Republicans in the US Congress.

That's is 3rd violation of ethics.  First the vacations paid by a lobbyist who got government money, then firing a minister for standing up to his lack of ethics, and now this.  Just like Trump, he'll keep going because there are no consequences and the Liberals will follow him because they fear they will lose without him.

[crazy canuck]

I think there is just a slight difference between the incompetence of Trudeau and the evil of Trump.

[viper37]

I think there is just a slight difference between the incompetence of Trudeau and the evil of Trump.

Trump arrived where he is because lesser transgressions were tolerated/excused.  When there are no consequences, you push things further.

The actual Trudeau is going a step farther than his Father and Jean Chrétien, but it is the same pattern.

As long as this kind of behaviour is tolerated in English Canada, because the party promise the hard line against Quebec and French Canada, there will be problems.

[Barrister]

I've been thinking and googling about vaccines.

It seems fairly clear that any vaccines that are developed for Covid are going to be distributed nationally.  That is, if the US develops a vaccine they'll make sure it's for Americans, and only distribute internationally after the US is taken care of.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/07/vaccine-race-covid-national-pride-348072

So where does that leave Canada?  Well other than a few university-led efforts to develop a vaccine, which don't appear to have entered even Phase 1 testing, we've mostly bet on a Chinese company CanSino.  It's based in China, but the founders were largely Chinese citizens who were educated in Canada.  CanSino is in the final Phase 3 stage of testing.

https://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/how-a-chinese-firm-jumped-to-the-front-of-the-virus-vaccine-race

So apparently under the deal with CanSino, we've agreed to help with the testing of the vaccine.  If it's effective Canada has the right to produce the vaccine domestically for use in Canada only.  Canada can not sell it, and has no ownership over the vaccine.

Problem is - two months after striking the deal Canada still hasn't received the vaccine candidate from CanSino.

https://ipolitics.ca/2020/07/06/canada-yet-to-receive-vaccine-candidate-from-chinese-developer-it-reached-an-agreement-with-in-may/

Seems a little risky to rely on a Chinese company (relations between the two countries are rather rocky right now).

Week later - still no vaccine candidate from China.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/potential-covid-19-vaccine-approved-for-human-trial-in-canada-is-stuck-in-china-1.5022072

[viper37]

There are trials for vaccine candidates in Quebec, IIRC.  One Montreal company is active on this, if I'm not mistaken, trials in animals should have begun...

There is at least another developping a vaccine from plants, not their first trial, and they've received money from the US govt for their research.  I don't think they have started their trials though.
EDIT:
Medicago (Quebec city) is set to being trials on humans (stage 1, I guess?) either this month or the next.
Syneos Health is recruiting test subjects as we speak.  They are located in Montreal and Quebec city.  Given the name and the fact their website has a chinese section, I think it likely they also have links with China.  I'm still tempted to give my name for the trials though, if they'll accept me.  It pays quite a lot, nearly 3000$.

[Barrister]

There are trials for vaccine candidates in Quebec, IIRC.  One Montreal company is active on this, if I'm not mistaken, trials in animals should have begun...

There is at least another developping a vaccine from plants, not their first trial, and they've received money from the US govt for their research.  I don't think they have started their trials though.

Yeah - there are some vaccine candidates being developed in Canada.  None have started human testing - and these companies don't have the resources to do large-scale human testing without government assistance.

The upside to CanSino is that they are in phase 3 testing.  Plus they have administered a number of vaccines to the PLA as an emergency measure.  Not sure how ethical that is, but it should be good evidence about its safety.

[crazy canuck]

BB your facts are wrong.  There a number of Canadian research efforts that are about to start clinical trials.  One has just stated in a lab based in Quebec.

[viper37]

There are trials for vaccine candidates in Quebec, IIRC.  One Montreal company is active on this, if I'm not mistaken, trials in animals should have begun...

There is at least another developping a vaccine from plants, not their first trial, and they've received money from the US govt for their research.  I don't think they have started their trials though.

Yeah - there are some vaccine candidates being developed in Canada.  None have started human testing - and these companies don't have the resources to do large-scale human testing without government assistance.

Medicago has begun human testing -phase 1- this morning, with 180 test subjects.  If all goes well, they expect to deliver the vaccine within the 1st half of 2021.

Afaik, they have no more help than other biopharmas, but they may have received a grant from the US (it's getting hard to follow all this + the research).  They have a propriatery technology that allows them to develop the vaccine in plants, from DNA/RNA of the virus.

The upside to CanSino is that they are in phase 3 testing.  Plus they have administered a number of vaccines to the PLA as an emergency measure.  Not sure how ethical that is, but it should be good evidence about its safety.

Possibly.  It's in China, so we don't really know for sure what is going on.  It's not like they are a truly transparent country.
Even if safe, we have no date on how efficient it is.  Does it work at 50%, 70%, 90%. We have no idea.

[Barrister]

BB your facts are wrong.  There a number of Canadian research efforts that are about to start clinical trials.  One has just stated in a lab based in Quebec.

I'm not sure how you get to "your facts are wrong".  I said that there were Canadian efforts for a vaccine, but that none had started human testing.  "About to start" doesn't contradict what I said.

Then you mention one lab in Quebec - that had just started the same day I posted.  Sorry I wasn't immediately aware of the days news.