[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Sheilbh]

There definitely were minstrel shows in Canada, and in Quebec. However, it should be noted that those shows in Montreal tended to take place in Anglophone venues - the YMCA, the Young Men Hebrew Association, traveling shows. etc. I am sure there were some Francophones attending these - but it never had cultural resonance, and therefore, never was something that needed to be fought against the francophone community. It is telling that the only reports of minstrel show in Quebec, at a francophone venue, dates 1) from 1830 ("Ethiopian Soirees") 2) 1907. After that, nothing.

The current knowledge of blackface unsurprisingly comes from American scholarship. And, to some extent, this is warranted: attitudes towards race in Canada were undoubtedly influenced by white American attitudes - and British attitude. But it had little influence, and therefore knowledge of its practice has declined sharply after the 1940s, in Francophone culture. Much more relevant, for instance, would be Normand Brathwaite's role in TV show, "Chez Denise" in the 1970s, or portrayal of Africans in French and Belgian children's books available in Quebec elementary schools in the 1920s and 1930s. But my concern is that scholars focus on the issue of blackface because there is a vibrant, and readily available scholarship (and history of activism) produced in the US - and it makes it easy to import the conclusions and the stakes. It also means that the contours of racism are defined by American terms, which is perhaps more problematic, because it prevents us from seeing what specific form of Canadian exclusions were produced. In short, we waste a lot of energy talking about blackface among francophones, when we really ought to talk about making Black Montreal so invisible to the Francophones, or the deleterious impact of Tintin.

Reminds me of the (undoubtedly racist) headline and illustration in a Dutch review of Ta-Nehisi Coates' book:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2015/08/13/dutch-newspaper-uses-n-word-in-headline-of-review-of-ta-nehisi-coatess-new-book/

In particular:

What the NRC episode reveals is that as the Black Lives Matter movement increases in visibility both in the United States and abroad, American discourse about race, privilege and media representations will inevitably bump up against and illuminate the state of race relations, identity and privilege in other countries. Naturally, in the case of the U.S. and the Netherlands, with different histories of slavery, immigration and definitions of identity, neither country's experience can be used to fully explain the other.

With all that being said, it's unfortunate, but perhaps no surprise that the themes of Coates's book about the desecration of black bodies and whites' simultaneous denial about racism were lost in translation with the Dutch editors at NRC. On the theme of committing racist acts while "escaping all sanction," Coates quotes Aleksandr Solzenitsyn; "To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he is doing is good, or else that it's a well-considered act ..." By using the fully violent n-word in English, instead of Dutch, the editors felt they were escaping sanction, protecting Dutch readers from the realities of racism and discrimination in their own country while shaking their heads at the plight of blacks in the United States. Perhaps they thought they were doing good, or that using blackface was well thought out. But by reinforcing the dehumanization of blacks, they did all of us, Dutch or non-Dutch, a disservice.

[viper37]

I'm a little surprised Trudeau has been this long in politics and no oppo research has dug up these pictures before.

I know, I'm a little disappointed in the Conservative Party on this one.

I think it was just that he has been in politics long enough that everyone assumed he'd already been thoroughly vetted.

He was 3rd in the polls at the beginning of the last election, maybe no one high up in the Conservative ranks thought he could win, therefore did not waste that much time doing oppo research.  Once he won, though, people started digging in time for the next election.

[viper37]

Quebecers are a little bit racist, therefore they don't see anything wrong with Trudeau's display of racism.

Of course we are a little bit racist.  Just like the Rest of Canada.  Much less than the US, since we didn't need thousands of slaves to work our fields (cotton, tobacco and sugar weren't a thing up here...).

Our racism explains why many French Canadians enrolled in the Union Army while English Canada profitted from trading with the Confederacy...

Blackface has never been much of an issue until very recently.  It's an alien concept to the French society because there never were a deep dived between blacks and whites as in the US, with the Jim Crow laws.

[viper37]

But it's really hard to escape the obvious bigotry behind Bill 21.  I think it is significant that although it has been threatened, that this is the first time the Notwithstanding clause has been used in Canada in 30 years.

I seem to remember a judge entering his court hall with a MAGA hat.  I also believe he had to appear in front of a disciplinary committed for his action...

It's shameful that Canada has such intolerance to a diversity of opinion and is so hostile toward free speech in the workplace

More to the point, how many countries in the world do you think have rampant bigotry such as Quebec?


Given that these things (because, hey, otherwise, you'd be bigots!) would be allowed in Canada and the US, in the name of freedom of religion, I'm glave we are taking a stand against religious extremism.

[Valmy]

Of course we are a little bit racist.  Just like the Rest of Canada.  Much less than the US, since we didn't need thousands of slaves to work our fields (cotton, tobacco and sugar weren't a thing up here...).

Well we didn't NEED them as sharecropping later showed.

[crazy canuck]

I am surprised (pleasantly) how competitive the Greens are in my riding and the riding next door (West Van) the Libs, Cons and Greens are all within the margin of error - in that order.  It will be interesting to see the next polling data.

[viper37]

Of course we are a little bit racist.  Just like the Rest of Canada.  Much less than the US, since we didn't need thousands of slaves to work our fields (cotton, tobacco and sugar weren't a thing up here...).

Well we didn't NEED them as sharecropping later showed.

it just seemed to be standard practice at the time for southern climates, where commercial crops like sugar and cotton were the norm, rather than wheat or corn.

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSFUW_rwkr8

CBC story on how blackface is playing in Quebec.  I'm only halfway through (or troo as they say in Quebec).  Nothing super profound or enlightening, but it does have some good examples of French-English flip-flop-flip I've mentioned in other threads.

[Grey Fox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSFUW_rwkr8

CBC story on how blackface is playing in Quebec.  I'm only halfway through (or troo as they say in Quebec).  Nothing super profound or enlightening, but it does have some good examples of French-English flip-flop-flip I've mentioned in other threads.

Flip-flop-flip? 

[Duque de Bragança]

the deleterious impact of Tintin.

Deleterious impact of Tintin is far from certain.
First, you only show some early Tintin, Tintin au Congo. Very dated, not very well documented compared to later releases, e.g Blue Lotus which paints in a very bad light a clearly racist character.
Furthermore, the first black and white edition has a clear paternalistic colonial bias of its time while the "revised" colour releases (1946 to 60's/70s) attempt to tone it down with mixed results, along with the animal cruelty aspect, which made Tintin somewhat of a foolish hunter.
Rest assured, [spoiler]the bad guy is white.[/spoiler]

Yet, Tintin au Congo is the most popular album in Congo and in Africa, much to PC Crusaders' chagrin. Most locals see the antiquated representations as caricatures, not to be taken seriously.
https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2015/09/04/tintin-superstar-au-congo_4746163_3212.html

So the deleterious impact of Tintin today leaves  me skeptical. I don't see the far-right using it.
A far cry from Red Sea Sharks (Coke en Stock), based on a true story of African Mecca pilgrims ending enslaved, denouncing the ongoing slave trade  to the Middle East in the 1950s, which also attracted the wrath of critics, completely missing the point, by pointing the use of some pidgin by characters in the album. The pidgin was kept eventually for Captain Haddock. 

Not so long ago, Tintin in the Land of Soviets, also was merely seen as only anti-Soviet propaganda. It was the first album, so crude by Hergé's later standards. Given what happened during Stalin's time however, the late '20s album was not off the mark.

As for the blackface, identity politics militants try to import the US concept as in being outrageous. Antoine Griezmann, a famous footballer, got quite flamed on social networks (the horror) when he showed up in black make-up to impersonate Harlem Globe Trotter. He is a big fan of US pop culture but seems to have ignored the drawbacks that go with it.

[Josephus]

I'm a little surprised Trudeau has been this long in politics and no oppo research has dug up these pictures before.

I know, I'm a little disappointed in the Conservative Party on this one.

I think it was just that he has been in politics long enough that everyone assumed he'd already been thoroughly vetted.

Or maybe it made more sense to wait until the election to bring it up.

[Josephus]

Which again, doesn't support the point that such shows were " ... very common throughout Canada into the 1970s".

In short, the claim is suspect. No doubt some "minstrel shows" appeared in Canada - we are after all on the same continent as the US - but the notion that they were " ... very common throughout Canada into the 1970s" strikes me as completely untrue; and true or not, the evidence provided doesn't support it at all.

Seems shoddy to me.

I feel like you're picking one particular claim (that minstrel shows ran into the 1970s) that may be suspect, and using it to question the entire article.

Here's another one.  I'm not familiar with this magazine, but it seems reputable, and the author is a professor at Ryerson University:

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2018/10/29/the-complicated-history-of-canadian-blackface/

It only goes up to the 50s for actual minstrel shows for what its worth.

Did you ever get British TV? The Black and White Minstrel show here was on until 1978.

Also, Goliwogs toys!

I had one.

[Malthus]

I had one.

I never heard of them until recently - they seem a British/Euro thing.

[Josephus]

I had one.

I never heard of them until recently - they seem a British/Euro thing.

Very British.

I grew up reading an Enid Blyton children's book series called Noddy. One of the characters was Mr. Golly, a golliwog. They did remove him later in a cartoon adaptation.

EDIT: Looks like they're cutting him out on new releases of the book

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6359248/Noddy-returns-without-the-golliwogs.html

[Barrister]

NDP promise to allow provinces to veto any pipeline through their territory.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/powerandpolitics/jagmeet-singh-ndp-provincial-veto-pipeline-1.5288365

Hey Singh - fuck you too.