[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Monoriu]

Is this a response to what i wrote?  I don't see the connection.

Well, you proposed a theory; I proposed another 

[viper37]

Actually no, it seems you have a partisan dislike for anything that comes from the wrong side of the political spectrum, while giving a pass to those who more closely align with your values. I think we do agree though that Trudeau's record is weak, but for different reasons.

Nope.  I defended the NDP when they had a bunch of new MPs in one election, and I defended some other ideas from the left too, at times, when it made sense.

Now a ten times increase would be quite robust, and this could be possible, if it was phased in over time. (Note I do no know what the best timeline would be, in order to address the urgency, but also to win public acceptance)

See, there's a problem right there: no one likes taxes.  Especially taxes that promises a full return, or taxes that are "temporary".

Once the government start taxing something, it becomes addicted to that revenue stream. And the public will expect a corresponding increase in public spending.  But at some point, you want to raise it high enough that people do not consume this: see the tax on tobacco&alcoholic product.  We taxed it until a black market got developped, and then we tried to squeeze it, but people found alternative ways of getting their "fix", so we had to legalize marijuana to compensate the tax loss from tobacco.

Once people stop using gaz for cars, the government will then increase taxes on something else, because it will be unwilling to reduce its expenses and face public wrath.  The current Liberal government is all about that: spend like there is no tommorow.

That said, other jurisdictions, such as BC, have had success with this tool , in terms of lowering emissions. BC's Carbon Tax was implemented by the conservative BC Liberal party (long story as to why they are the conservative party, in all but name)

Well, I remain unconvinced by the Quebec example.  Sure, we have a carbon market, but we exempted the biggest polluters.

I think we can agree that building municipal infrastructure is complex, due to the three levels of government that are usually involved, and short sighted politics tends to make a mess of it. I appreciate that Quebec City has its problems, but I could also bore you with 10 years of transit planning in Toronto, largely due to Liberal/Conservative pols. Pass the dutchie.

the point is, we have to blame the right people.

Cities should make their plans and get it approved by provincial authorities, first.  Once this is done, they should seek financing from the federal and provincial government.

If the Federal has funds available to cities and or provincial government and they are barely claimed, why blame the Federal govt?  If there are plans and financial demands but no funds available, then we should blame the provincial and Federal govt.

But there is no use staging protests at a provincial premier's office because he does not talk about environment while he acts and giving a pass at Trudeau for speaking about the environment but doing nothing.

We lag behind on our CO2 cuts, we lag behind on our protection of endangered species, we lag behind on our protection of territories and waters.  But the govt gets a free pass because he talks about it?

I'm sorry, I prefer action over words.

[dps]

I don't doubt for a minute that once a tax is introduced, governments are loathe to lose that revenue, but the idea that marijuana was legalized to make up for lost tax revenue from tobacco seems laughable.  That certainly wasn't the motivation in the US.

[viper37]

I don't doubt for a minute that once a tax is introduced, governments are loathe to lose that revenue, but the idea that marijuana was legalized to make up for lost tax revenue from tobacco seems laughable.  That certainly wasn't the motivation in the US.

they thought it would make an interesting revenue stream.  Of course, you don't market the idea exactly like that.  You say it's to remove it from the hands of the organized crime so they will all go broke from not offering marijuana to their customers...

I guess some people believed that.

But so far, organized crime is having a field day with this.  They are most likely behind the shadowy investors from fiscal paradise who cornered the market, and they still seel as much of their products as before.

[viper37]

Interesting study today, but it's very bad news for Alberta...

Tar sands oil production produces between 13 and 37% more CO2 than the industry is reporting, according to Environment Canada.  The discrepancy is due to a change in methodology.  I don't know enough of the subject to discuss this, maybe Valmy does.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/oilsands-carbon-emissions-study-1.5106809

[viper37]

PC minority government in Prince Edward Island.  Green Party is official opposition, Liberal 2nd opposition.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/pei/2019/results/

[dps]

I don't doubt for a minute that once a tax is introduced, governments are loathe to lose that revenue, but the idea that marijuana was legalized to make up for lost tax revenue from tobacco seems laughable.  That certainly wasn't the motivation in the US.

they thought it would make an interesting revenue stream.  Of course, you don't market the idea exactly like that.  You say it's to remove it from the hands of the organized crime so they will all go broke from not offering marijuana to their customers...

I guess some people believed that.

But so far, organized crime is having a field day with this.  They are most likely behind the shadowy investors from fiscal paradise who cornered the market, and they still seel as much of their products as before.

I don't think revenue or the spectre of organized crime had anything to do with the legalization of pot in those US states where it's been decriminalized.  It was legalized because so many people wanted to be able to buy it legally.

[Barrister]

PC minority government in Prince Edward Island.  Green Party is official opposition, Liberal 2nd opposition.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/pei/2019/results/

For non-Canadians this is interesting.  Because of the three-way split, there was a real chance the Green Party was going to win, a first anywhere for the party.

[viper37]

I don't think revenue or the spectre of organized crime had anything to do with the legalization of pot in those US states where it's been decriminalized. 

that was the line pushed by Trudeau during his campaign.  Did he really believed it?  Did his voters really believed it? I have no idea.  But that's what he said."To ensure that we keep marijuana out of the hands of children, and the profits out of the hands of criminals, we will legalize, regulate, and restrict access to marijuana."https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/marijuana/

Also:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/cannabis-health-canada-enquete-investigation-1.4887997

EDIT:
I don't know why, this stupid forum keeps messing with my formatting, erasing any space between lines...

[viper37]

PC minority government in Prince Edward Island.  Green Party is official opposition, Liberal 2nd opposition.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/pei/2019/results/

For non-Canadians this is interesting.  Because of the three-way split, there was a real chance the Green Party was going to win, a first anywhere for the party.

They got close.  And in a minority government, they might be able to force some issues.

[Zoupa]

PC minority government in Prince Edward Island.  Green Party is official opposition, Liberal 2nd opposition.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/pei/2019/results/

For non-Canadians this is interesting.  Because of the three-way split, there was a real chance the Green Party was going to win, a first anywhere for the party.

There are less people in PEI than in my neighborhood. Federalism is kinda stupid.

[viper37]

PC minority government in Prince Edward Island.  Green Party is official opposition, Liberal 2nd opposition.
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/pei/2019/results/

For non-Canadians this is interesting.  Because of the three-way split, there was a real chance the Green Party was going to win, a first anywhere for the party.

There are less people in PEI than in my neighborhood. Federalism is kinda stupid.

just because an area is less populated than another does not make it less important.  There are less people in my village than in your block.  Doesn't mean we don't exists.

[Zoupa]

That's not what I mean. I'm mostly referring to the fact that 150000 people get the same legislature and administrative infrastructure at the provincial and federal level than a province 50 times bigger.

It's dumb and inefficient in a very british way.

[crazy canuck]

That's not what I mean. I'm mostly referring to the fact that 150000 people get the same legislature and administrative infrastructure at the provincial and federal level than a province 50 times bigger.

It's dumb and inefficient in a very british way.

I agree. Not to mention the Constitutional rights that province has within the Federation.  Seemed like a good idea at the time I guess.

[dps]

I don't think revenue or the spectre of organized crime had anything to do with the legalization of pot in those US states where it's been decriminalized. 

that was the line pushed by Trudeau during his campaign.  Did he really believed it?  Did his voters really believed it? I have no idea.  But that's what he said."To ensure that we keep marijuana out of the hands of children, and the profits out of the hands of criminals, we will legalize, regulate, and restrict access to marijuana."https://www.liberal.ca/realchange/marijuana/

Also:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/cannabis-health-canada-enquete-investigation-1.4887997

EDIT:
I don't know why, this stupid forum keeps messing with my formatting, erasing any space between lines...

Oh, I'm not saying that politicians won't talk about taking drug profits out of the hands of organized crime and raising more revenue (and they certainly will be willing to tax pot sales), but the reason they vote to legalize it is because their constituents want it to be legal.