[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Valmy]

I also can't recall in a modern democratic nation, any state applying "some sort of official pressure" to adopt a culture.

Denmark is pretty heavy handed and explicit in this department, as I understand it.

True but old world style ethnic nation states are an entirely different sort of thing than what we have over here. I mean Denmark exists entirely to be the home for the Danish ethnicity, it has no other reason to exist.

[Jacob]

True but old world style ethnic nation states are an entirely different sort of thing than what we have over here.

Maybe, but Zoupa did not make that distinction.

I mean Denmark exists entirely to be the home for the Danish ethnicity, it has no other reason to exist.

That is a pretty hard-nationalist statement and not one I think is correct. It's the kind of statement that tends to come from the explicitly racist crowd (which I know you're not) - and the absolutist part like "exists entirely" and " no other reason" makes it more extreme than what I'm used to hear even from open racists.

[Valmy]

That is a pretty hard-nationalist statement and not one I think is correct.

Alright so what is it about Denmark that makes it a country distinct from others? What political ideology beyond that does it represent? Why does it exist?

Loyalty to the Monarchy?

[Jacob]

That is a pretty hard-nationalist statement and not one I think is correct.

Alright so what is it about Denmark that makes it a country distinct from others? What political ideology beyond that does it represent? Why does it exist?

Loyalty to the Monarchy?

Are you seriously proposing that the only answer to those questions are "to provide a home to the Danish ethnicity" to the exclusion of all others?

[crazy canuck]

As an aside, Beeb has not yet at this point articulated an answer to the question. How is the current government's approach to multiculturalism extreme? And how is it harmful to Canada?

Yeah what is the approach?

Part of the reason it is a difficult thing for BB to answer is that nothing much has changed from the previous Conservative immigration policy.  The only issue that has really surfaced relates to refugee claimants crossing irregularly into Canada.  Bernier was attempting to play on that issue. 

[ulmont]

Are you seriously proposing that the only answer to those questions are "to provide a home to the Danish ethnicity" to the exclusion of all others?

Not "to the exclusion of all others", but I think Valmy's point is more like:  "What purpose does the country 'Denmark' serve that could not be met as well if the area was an administrative region of Sweden or Germany"?

Looking just at the US, Canada, and Mexico, though, I'm not sure there's any real reason for any particular country to exist other than "as an accident of history."

[Valmy]

My point is that old world nation-states were established primarily as the political expression of a nationality. That is the ideology behind them. If they are going to be something other than that, then they have to embrace a new idea.

That is different from Canada and the US as I see it.

And I am not a fan of these sorts of old world nation-states and I think it is no accident they often act as they do, like with the policies Jake was referring to in Denmark.

[Jacob]

My point is that old world nation-states were established primarily as the political expression of a nationality. That is the ideology behind them. If they are going to be something other than that, then they have to embrace a new idea.

That is different from Canada and the US as I see it.

And I am not a fan of these sorts of old world nation-states and I think it is no accident they often act as they do, like with the policies Jake was referring to in Denmark.

I think that is not really correct - Denmark has existed as a coherent state for significantly longer than the ideology of nationalism (ethnic or otherwise) or the nation-state have.

To say that Denmark (or most other "old world nation-states") were formed primarily as the political expression of a nationality is 1) incredibly reductive, 2) explicitly concedes the argument to the hard chauvinist ethnic nationalists you dislike.

Certainly in the era of the nationalist ideology, Denmark was often understood in ethnic nationalist terms (including heavy handed enforcing of conformity to the culture of the elite administrative centre), but it was understood differently before, and is being understood differently after as well. And as with all concepts covering a large body of people, the exact meaning is often contentious and amorphous when examined in sufficient detail.

[crazy canuck]

A reminder that we are not immune from what is happening to our friends south of the 49th.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/jinnah-park-sign-vandalized-winnipeg-1.4789917

[Monoriu]

A reminder that we are not immune from what is happening to our friends south of the 49th.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/jinnah-park-sign-vandalized-winnipeg-1.4789917

My reaction is...I wouldn't dream of having a park in say Vancouver being named after a Chinese person.  If the Chinese community in Vancouver makes such a demand and gets a less than welcome reaction from Canadians, I would understand their position.  Such a demand is unnecessary, and everybody can live without it.  It is their country after all. 

[crazy canuck]

A reminder that we are not immune from what is happening to our friends south of the 49th.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/jinnah-park-sign-vandalized-winnipeg-1.4789917

My reaction is...I wouldn't dream of having a park in say Vancouver being named after a Chinese person.  If the Chinese community in Vancouver makes such a demand and gets a less than welcome reaction from Canadians, I would understand their position.  Such a demand is unnecessary, and everybody can live without it.  It is their country after all.

We have parks named after Chinese people and have had for some time - even when you were here

[Monoriu]

We have parks named after Chinese people and have had for some time - even when you were here

That's not really the point.  The point is, if Canadians don't want to have parks named after Chinese people, I won't be surprised and I don't have a problem with their position.

[crazy canuck]

Your premise is not accurate.

[Monoriu]

Your premise is not accurate.

It isn't.  It was a bad example, but I hope you still get the point 

[crazy canuck]

That you are being an apologist for racists?  Yeah, I get that.