[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Still disconnected elitists.

Here I thought the media were right and they were populists!  Damn medias!  Can't ever trust them to report factual information!

[Malthus]

They laughed at some MP who used to be a bus driver when he mentioned it.

I see.  Who did the laughing?

Several Tories

http://globalnews.ca/news/3253664/sohi-bus-driver-diversity-canadian-politics/

Tories laughing at a politician for bus driving in the past is disgraceful, but that article is silly.

Is it any real surprise or shock that those in charge of drafting laws and managing the administration of government programs are largely drawn from the ranks of those who studied ... law and administration?  Would it really be an improvement to kick them out and replace them with people who know nothing of either law or administration?

Well, I guess we shall see, as they are apparently conducting that experiment south of the border ... 

[viper37]

So, B-C becomes the 6th province to be bribed into submission.
In order to accept the health transfer cuts, the Feds promised them a huge amount of money for their drug crisis.  I guess Insite didn't work that well, after all.

[viper37]

Is it any real surprise or shock that those in charge of drafting laws and managing the administration of government programs are largely drawn from the ranks of those who studied ... law and administration?

I think it's a question of balance.  Obviously, you want qualified people.  But lawyers are qualified to read laws, just as doctors are qualified to cure patients.  Management is an entirely different branch, and we tend to recruit management specialists for inferior posts instead of the top ones.  So you get people with no knowledge of administration to direct people skilled in these fields, and just like Trump, they have a tendancy to not listen to others.

[HVC]

Hey Vip, I thought you'd be more upset that the PM got in trouble for replying to questions in French .

[Barrister]

Hey Vip, I thought you'd be more upset that the PM got in trouble for replying to questions in French .

I don't think even Viper could be upset about that.  The woman was in a town with a significant english-speaking minority, and she was specifically asking about english-language services in her community.

[Malthus]

Is it any real surprise or shock that those in charge of drafting laws and managing the administration of government programs are largely drawn from the ranks of those who studied ... law and administration?

I think it's a question of balance.  Obviously, you want qualified people.  But lawyers are qualified to read laws, just as doctors are qualified to cure patients.  Management is an entirely different branch, and we tend to recruit management specialists for inferior posts instead of the top ones.  So you get people with no knowledge of administration to direct people skilled in these fields, and just like Trump, they have a tendancy to not listen to others.

The argument being made in the article, though, is that these people are "elitist" and don't have the grounding of (say) someone who has worked in a blue-collar job.

Your argument, insofar as I understand it - which may for all I know be a good one - is that people who studied management aren't "elite" enough in that they don't have actual experience managing in the field sufficient to qualify for top posts.

This isn't the same as putting a guy who worked as a fisherman in as the fisheries minister, which is the actual example given in the article. Or at least, I assume it isn't.

Think about it this way: who has the best perspective to tackle the issues facing Atlantic Canada? Someone who studied fisheries in school, or who worked for years as a fisherman?

"One is theoretic and one is a person who is on the ground getting real experience," said Chan.

That's a line that sounds good, but makes no sense when you think about it. The job of a fisheries minister is general, not specific - to balance things like the availability of jobs, regional concerns, environmental degradation and the long-term health of the fishing stocks for the country as a whole.

As a gross generalization, a working fisherman is likely to be most concerned with one issue - the needs of working fishermen, and moreover, the needs of working fishermen from where he or she comes from. Those needs are, often, going to be at odds with the 'big picture'.   

For the same reason, you don't necessarily want to put a farmer in charge of agricultural policy. The farmer knows all about farming of whatever type he or she does. But is a farmer who grew wheat in Alberta really the best person to decide interprovincial/international trade issues concerning dairy farmers in Quebec? Even if he or she does - aren't they likely to favour the interests of farmers over those of urban consumers or the environment?

[viper37]

Hey Vip, I thought you'd be more upset that the PM got in trouble for replying to questions in French .

she asked the question in english, she deserved an answer in english.  Had she asked a question in French and got an answer in english, I'd be mad at the PM.

[HVC]

Hey Vip, I thought you'd be more upset that the PM got in trouble for replying to questions in French .

I don't think even Viper could be upset about that.  The woman was in a town with a significant english-speaking minority, and she was specifically asking about english-language services in her community.

quiet you, i'm trying to goad viper

[viper37]

Your argument, insofar as I understand it - which may for all I know be a good one - is that people who studied management aren't "elite" enough in that they don't have actual experience managing in the field sufficient to qualify for top posts.

No.  My argument is there aren't people trained in business admin in the political parties.  You give a department to a lawyer and a doctor, he migh do a decent job, but it's not always the case.  There's a tendancy in politics to attract lawyers, and doctors for health department, and it's all good to some point.  However, since the late 90s, the Health department of Quebec has been run by doctors and it's been one disaster after another.  What is required is business administration skills.  You don't need a doctor to oversee the organization and the delivrance of health care policies in the province, you need an administrator competent enough to supervise his/her underlings so that services are delivered in the most efficient ways.

I can see a lawyer (well, former) at the had of the Justice department, but imho, he would do a poor job a Transportation minister. 

I'm also saying that we need doctors, lawyers and engineers in government, but not just that.  We may need bus drivers, and I don't know about his specific qualifications, but being a bus driver in itself is not a qualification for being a minister of infrastructures, other skills are required.  He may have them, he may have not, I do not know.  It's certainly not a reason to mock him, wait until he makes a real blunder, and besides, there are a lot of incompetent morons in this government, starting by the PM itself. 

We do need people from all horizons, so that law making does not become too detached from the non lawyer folks and that laws aren't so complicated that no one but the highly experienced lawyers understand them.  I just think we need a good mix, with an emphasis on people from management fields to supervise their department.  I know the deputy ministers are doing this work, but when something is not working right, you don't call your doctor to fix your car.

Right now, lawyers are over represented in the political fields, and I feel it is creating more problems than solving any.  As I said, it's a question of balance.  If you need to write new laws to fix something, having lawyers as ministers is all good, they'll work with the people in place and will have an understanding of what is going on.  However, when you need to change agovernmental approach to fix an issue, you need other kind of skills.

That's a line that sounds good, but makes no sense when you think about it. The job of a fisheries minister is general, not specific - to balance things like the availability of jobs, regional concerns, environmental degradation and the long-term health of the fishing stocks for the country as a whole.

I toally agree with that.

[Jacob]

Leitch is running ads on Breitbart: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/02/24/conservative-mp-kellie-leitch-runs-ads-on-breitbart-news.html

Seems like Leitch and O'Leary are both trying to run the Trump-free-coverage strategy. But with two of them going the same way, they may split the angry alt-right vote.

[Ed Anger]

Canadian alt right: declare Rush and Anne Murray are advocating white genocide
Swiss Chalet is the rightful chain of white people

[Jacob]

Canadian alt right: declare Rush and Anne Murray are advocating white genocide
Swiss Chalet is the rightful chain of white people

100% tarif on imported donuts!

[Neil]

It's been a rough time in Alberta.  Trudeau is holding court in Calgary, evil criminals are being set free due to a shortage of prosecutors and Jason Kenney is about to become the next premier of the province.  He's not even from 'round here!

[Monoriu]

evil criminals are being set free due to a shortage of prosecutors

Is that an accusation