[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Jacob]

If that's how he wants to run the country, so be it.

I thought he came into office wanting to appeal to Canadians across the country however.  And he has talked a reasonably good game about pipelines.

Alright, taking that at face value - that Trudeau is attempting to appeal to Canadians across the country, which of the two scenarios do you prefer:

1: That he facilitates the building of pipelines, while also making meaningless comments about "phasing out the oil sands" with no attached plan of action; or

2: That he puts serious obstacles in the way of pipeline construction, but does not say anything about phasing out the oil sands.

Because, as you said, he's working to govern Canada for all Canadians across the country and many of them have serious concerns about the Albertan oil sands... so he has to do something for them too, even if it's meaningless platitudes.

[Barrister]

If that's how he wants to run the country, so be it.

I thought he came into office wanting to appeal to Canadians across the country however.  And he has talked a reasonably good game about pipelines.

Alright, taking that at face value - that Trudeau is attempting to appeal to Canadians across the country, which of the two scenarios do you prefer:

1: That he facilitates the building of pipelines, while also making meaningless comments about "phasing out the oil sands" with no attached plan of action; or

2: That he puts serious obstacles in the way of pipeline construction, but does not say anything about phasing out the oil sands.

Because, as you said, he's working to govern Canada for all Canadians across the country and many of them have serious concerns about the Albertan oil sands... so he has to do something for them too, even if it's meaningless platitudes.

No he doesn't.  He can say, as Notley is saying, that the Oilsands are an important part of Canada's economy, and that he's devoted to see that industry continue, albeit in an environmentally and climate responsible manner.

Concerns about GG emissions are fine, and we can have a civilized conversation about what to do about that.  But this notion amongst certain environmental activists that oilsands development is some kind of unique horror and must be "shut down" in it's entirety is one that should be stood up against.

Oil sands oil is just oil.  It produces greenhouse gasses when you burn it just like any other kind of oil.  Shutting down the oilsands and just importing more Saudi oil does nothing to help the climate.

[Jacob]

Ah, so in governing for all Canadians Trudeau should do nothing to appeal "certain environmental activists", even if the sentiment that they express - that Albertan oil development has significant environmental impact - is shared by a large number of Canadians.

[Barrister]

Ah, so in governing for all Canadians Trudeau should do nothing to appeal "certain environmental activists", even if the sentiment that they express - that Albertan oil development has significant environmental impact - is shared by a large number of Canadians.

I didn't say "do nothing".  He can talk about his greenhouse gas strategy, and Alberta's carbon tax.  He can talk about other things he thinks can be done to develop oil sounds in a more sustainable manner.

But he should not buy in to the notion that huge sectors of the economy need to be "shut down".

[PRC]

Ah, so in governing for all Canadians Trudeau should do nothing to appeal "certain environmental activists", even if the sentiment that they express - that Albertan oil development has significant environmental impact - is shared by a large number of Canadians.

I didn't say "do nothing".  He can talk about his greenhouse gas strategy, and Alberta's carbon tax.  He can talk about other things he thinks can be done to develop oil sounds in a more sustainable manner.

But he should not buy in to the notion that huge sectors of the economy need to be "shut down".

He didn't say it should be "shut down". 

[Barrister]

Ah, so in governing for all Canadians Trudeau should do nothing to appeal "certain environmental activists", even if the sentiment that they express - that Albertan oil development has significant environmental impact - is shared by a large number of Canadians.

I didn't say "do nothing".  He can talk about his greenhouse gas strategy, and Alberta's carbon tax.  He can talk about other things he thinks can be done to develop oil sounds in a more sustainable manner.

But he should not buy in to the notion that huge sectors of the economy need to be "shut down".

He didn't say it should be "shut down".

We can't shut down the oilsands tomorrow. We need to phase them out.

He didn't disagree with the notion of them being shut down.  He just said we can't do it tomorrow.

[PRC]

Ah, so in governing for all Canadians Trudeau should do nothing to appeal "certain environmental activists", even if the sentiment that they express - that Albertan oil development has significant environmental impact - is shared by a large number of Canadians.

I didn't say "do nothing".  He can talk about his greenhouse gas strategy, and Alberta's carbon tax.  He can talk about other things he thinks can be done to develop oil sounds in a more sustainable manner.

But he should not buy in to the notion that huge sectors of the economy need to be "shut down".

He didn't say it should be "shut down".

We can't shut down the oilsands tomorrow. We need to phase them out.

He didn't disagree with the notion of them being shut down.  He just said we can't do it tomorrow.

And he is correct.  Again, I don't get the outrage.

[Jacob]

He didn't disagree with the notion of them being shut down.  He just said we can't do it tomorrow.

... and the feeling is that oil should last forever in Alberta?

[frunk]

"Yeah, but it's a golden age for the repo business. One that shall never end."

[Barrister]

He didn't disagree with the notion of them being shut down.  He just said we can't do it tomorrow.

... and the feeling is that oil should last forever in Alberta?

Maybe we'll run out of oil.  But the way that alternative resources have been discovered and developed, like shale oil in the us, and Canadian oil sands, we've been pretty good at finding new sources.

But if oil runs out, becomes uneconomical or whatever due to market forces, well then we've had a good run.  But for it to still be a viable industry except to see it "phased out" by the government... well that won't go over well.

How would you like it if government, citing the unhealthy effects it has on kids or something, announces plans to "phase out" the video game industry, even if only over the next 20 years?

[Jacob]

How would you like it if government, citing the unhealthy effects it has on kids or something, announces plans to "phase out" the video game industry, even if only over the next 20 years?

I believe the science on the environmental impact of the oil industry is orders of magnitude more firm than the "unhealthy effects on kids" thing you're proposing.

[Barrister]

How would you like it if government, citing the unhealthy effects it has on kids or something, announces plans to "phase out" the video game industry, even if only over the next 20 years?

I believe the science on the environmental impact of the oil industry is orders of magnitude more firm than the "unhealthy effects on kids" thing you're proposing.

You didn't answer the question.  How do you feel if the government is going to get rid of your entire industry?

[Jacob]

You didn't answer the question.  How do you feel if the government is going to get rid of your entire industry?

I did answer your question, just not to your liking. I answered it by illustrating that it was a daft hypothetical.

I note that you didn't answer my question either. Which is fine. This is not a court of law but a conversation. So take your rude prosecutor manners and shove 'em.

[Monoriu]

I find it utterly crazy that Canada is talking about phasing out its oil sand industry due to climate change.  It is such a small part of the market.  Other oil producers will simply increase production to replace Canadian oil.  Total world oil production will remain more or less the same. 

[crazy canuck]

Ah, so in governing for all Canadians Trudeau should do nothing to appeal "certain environmental activists", even if the sentiment that they express - that Albertan oil development has significant environmental impact - is shared by a large number of Canadians.

I didn't say "do nothing".  He can talk about his greenhouse gas strategy, and Alberta's carbon tax.  He can talk about other things he thinks can be done to develop oil sounds in a more sustainable manner.

But he should not buy in to the notion that huge sectors of the economy need to be "shut down".

He didn't say it should be "shut down".

We can't shut down the oilsands tomorrow. We need to phase them out.

He didn't disagree with the notion of them being shut down.  He just said we can't do it tomorrow.

Frankly BB, I am not sure why this is such a big deal.  As you pointed out he is not suggesting that they should be shut down immediately.  But certainly a long term plan to phase them out makes good sense.